Book HAIL HOLY QUEEN

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Annie39

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I’m in the process of reading Scott Hahn’s book HAIL HOLY QUEEN. I have a question regarding it and I hope that there is someone here who can answer it. On page 80 he references 1 Kings 2:19 Bathsheba Solomon’s mother and the Queen Mother. In that society the Queen Mother had power, not the wife. Dr. Hahn references this as one part of his attempt to show the special place that Our Lady has in heaven. I’m reading this book in part because I’d like to have answers when I am confronted on Catholic Marian doctrines. In 1Kgs 2 we read that Bathsheba is indeed welcomed by her son with much honor but she asked Solomon to allow his brother to marry a certain person. Instead of granting this request, he had his brother killed. This doesn’t seem like the best example for Our Lady. Is there a Catholic apologist or knowledgeable Catholic who would care to comment here?

Annie
 
It’s an excellent answer and one I’ve used many times. It’s Biblical, it makes sense, and drives anti-Catholics crazy because they have no response to it. 👍
 
JustaServant said:
It’s an excellent answer and one I’ve used many times. It’s Biblical, it makes sense, and drives anti-Catholics crazy because they have no response to it. 👍
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I guess that you don’t see the problem with it that I do. Solomon did not grant Bathsheba’s request. He had the person whose request she took to Solomon killed.

Annie again
 
Annie39 said:
I guess that you don’t see the problem with it that I do. Solomon did not grant Bathsheba’s request. He had the person whose request she took to Solomon killed.

Annie again
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Hi Annie,
Here is an excerpt from a Scott Hahn article titles Mary, Holy Mother which elaborates a little more about that verse.

Let’s take a look at an example of the function and authority of the Queen Mother in 1st Kings. In chapter 1 there is an intense fraternal rivalry between Solomon or Jedidiah, whose throne name is Peace, Solomon, and his half-brother, Adonijah, who by the way is older and was born to one of David’s wives whom he had married before Bathsheba. So Adonijah seemed to have a kind of prima facia claim to the throne before Solomon, except that Bathsheba had exacted from David an oath to the effect that her son would get the throne. You can get it in Psalm 110 especially. So, anyway, Adonijah approaches Bathsheba in order to approach Solomon. We’re going to see how this goes. But first of all we see King David asking Bathsheba, verse 17, " What is it you want the king asked? She said to him, ‘My Lord, you yourself swore to me your servant by the Lord your God, Solomon your son shall be king after me and he will sit on my throne. But now Adonijah has become king and you my Lord, the king, do not know about it.’" And it goes on talking about this palace coup attempt.

Then King David says over in verse 28 and 29 calling Bathsheba. “So she came into the king’s presence and stood before him. The king then took an oath, ‘as surely as the Lord lives,’” and he goes on promising and swearing that “Solomon, your son, shall be king after me and he will sit on my throne in my place,” even though the majority of the people were going after Adonijah at the time, several key priests, as well. And so she rejoices.
Now turn over to 1st Kings 2. There’s where David gives his royal charge to Solomon and Solomon asks for wisdom, but just browse and just go through that as quickly as you can and just see what is going on here because it is very unusual. Let’s take a look in particular at verse 13. “Now Adonijah, the son of Haggith, went to Bathsheba, Solomon’s mother. Bathsheba asked him, ‘Do you come peacefully?’ He answered, ‘Yes, peacefully,’ then he added, ‘I have something to say to you.’ ‘You may say it, she replied.’ ‘As you know,’ he said, ‘the kingdom was mine. All Israel looked to me as their king. But then things changed and the kingdom has gone to my brother for it has come to him from the Lord. Now I have just one request to make of you. Do not refuse me.’ 'You may make it she said. So he continued, ‘Please ask King Solomon, he won’t refuse you, to give me Abishag, the Shunamite as my wife.’” If you understood palace politics, you’d see what this was. “Very well,” Bathsheba replied. “I will speak to the king for you.”

Abishag happened to be David’s last lover and wife. She was the one young woman who kept him warm in his old age, sleeping next to him at all times. To have David’s last wife would be to have official claim to the throne. This is why Absolom publicly slept with David’s concubines after he threw his father out of Jerusalem, because if I have the Queen Mothers, if I have the king’s wives, who do you see as your king? Solomon is no fool. When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, look what happens. The king of Israel, the son of David, the supreme head of God’s covenant people in the whole world, according to Psalm 2 stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne and he had a throne brought for the king’s mother and she sat down at his right hand. “Sit at my right hand,” Psalm 110. That’s the position of authority. I have one small request to make of you. She goes on and makes the request. Solomon sees through it. Says no, of course, and executes Adonijah.

But look at the beginning of the institution of the gebirah. It’s something that continues. When the Queen Mother walks in, the king, because he is her son, pays filial homage to her and establishes her at his right hand, upon a throne as Queen Mother. If I am the father of the family of this kingdom, if I am the shepherd of this flock, that makes you the mother. Not only my mother but the grandmother of us all. That institution persisted down through the ages of the Judaite monarchy. There is no evidence of it ever being suppressed by the prophets or criticized by Yahweh or ever falling into hard times and being replaced because it was seen as something that was meaningless.
 
Bathsheba is but a figure of Our Lady. A figure demonstrates some of the attributes of something to come. But ultimately it’s imperfect because it always points to something greater.

It’s similar to the manna the Israelites ate in the desert. The manna is only a figure of the Eucharist and it anticipates something far greater. So Jesus explains: “This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna and are dead. He that eateth this bread shall live for ever.” (Jn 6:58, DRV)

Note that the Father had a plan for the time that Jesus would reveal himself as the Son of God. But one nod from Our Lady at the wedding at Cana and God’s eternal plans were reworked. (Jn 2:1-11) Mary ain’t Bathsheba.
 
Gusto said:
Hi Annie,
Here is an excerpt from a Scott Hahn article titles Mary, Holy Mother which elaborates a little more about that verse.

Let’s take a look at an example of the function and authority of the Queen Mother in 1st Kings. In chapter 1 there is an intense fraternal rivalry between Solomon or Jedidiah, whose throne name is Peace, Solomon, and his half-brother, Adonijah, who by the way is older and was born to one of David’s wives whom he had married before Bathsheba. So Adonijah seemed to have a kind of prima facia claim to the throne before Solomon, except that Bathsheba had exacted from David an oath to the effect that her son would get the throne. You can get it in Psalm 110 especially. So, anyway, Adonijah approaches Bathsheba in order to approach Solomon. We’re going to see how this goes. But first of all we see King David asking Bathsheba, verse 17, " What is it you want the king asked? She said to him, ‘My Lord, you yourself swore to me your servant by the Lord your God, Solomon your son shall be king after me and he will sit on my throne. But now Adonijah has become king and you my Lord, the king, do not know about it.’" And it goes on talking about this palace coup attempt.

Then King David says over in verse 28 and 29 calling Bathsheba. “So she came into the king’s presence and stood before him. The king then took an oath, ‘as surely as the Lord lives,’” and he goes on promising and swearing that “Solomon, your son, shall be king after me and he will sit on my throne in my place,” even though the majority of the people were going after Adonijah at the time, several key priests, as well. And so she rejoices.
Now turn over to 1st Kings 2. There’s where David gives his royal charge to Solomon and Solomon asks for wisdom, but just browse and just go through that as quickly as you can and just see what is going on here because it is very unusual. Let’s take a look in particular at verse 13. “Now Adonijah, the son of Haggith, went to Bathsheba, Solomon’s mother. Bathsheba asked him, ‘Do you come peacefully?’ He answered, ‘Yes, peacefully,’ then he added, ‘I have something to say to you.’ ‘You may say it, she replied.’ ‘As you know,’ he said, ‘the kingdom was mine. All Israel looked to me as their king. But then things changed and the kingdom has gone to my brother for it has come to him from the Lord. Now I have just one request to make of you. Do not refuse me.’ 'You may make it she said. So he continued, ‘Please ask King Solomon, he won’t refuse you, to give me Abishag, the Shunamite as my wife.’” If you understood palace politics, you’d see what this was. “Very well,” Bathsheba replied. “I will speak to the king for you.”

Abishag happened to be David’s last lover and wife. She was the one young woman who kept him warm in his old age, sleeping next to him at all times. To have David’s last wife would be to have official claim to the throne. This is why Absolom publicly slept with David’s concubines after he threw his father out of Jerusalem, because if I have the Queen Mothers, if I have the king’s wives, who do you see as your king? Solomon is no fool. When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, look what happens. The king of Israel, the son of David, the supreme head of God’s covenant people in the whole world, according to Psalm 2 stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne and he had a throne brought for the king’s mother and she sat down at his right hand. “Sit at my right hand,” Psalm 110. That’s the position of authority. I have one small request to make of you. She goes on and makes the request. Solomon sees through it. Says no, of course, and executes Adonijah.

But look at the beginning of the institution of the gebirah. It’s something that continues. When the Queen Mother walks in, the king, because he is her son, pays filial homage to her and establishes her at his right hand, upon a throne as Queen Mother. If I am the father of the family of this kingdom, if I am the shepherd of this flock, that makes you the mother. Not only my mother but the grandmother of us all. That institution persisted down through the ages of the Judaite monarchy. There is no evidence of it ever being suppressed by the prophets or criticized by Yahweh or ever falling into hard times and being replaced because it was seen as something that was meaningless.
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Thank you very much Gusto. Hmmm Perth, Australia, where they put prawns not shrimp on the barbi 🙂 sounds like a beautiful place to live.

Annie
 
shom-bms said:
Bathsheba is but a figure of Our Lady. A figure demonstrates some of the attributes of something to come. But ultimately it’s imperfect because it always points to something greater.

It’s similar to the manna the Israelites ate in the desert. The manna is only a figure of the Eucharist and it anticipates something far greater. So Jesus explains: “This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna and are dead. He that eateth this bread shall live for ever.” (Jn 6:58, DRV)

Note that the Father had a plan for the time that Jesus would reveal himself as the Son of God. But one nod from Our Lady at the wedding at Cana and God’s eternal plans were reworked. (Jn 2:1-11) Mary ain’t Bathsheba.
Click to expand...
Very much of what you said I think is right on. However, I don’t think that God’s eternal plan was CHANGED at all. I think that the mystery of what Jesus knew as a Man and what he knew as God, similar to Jesus saying that he did not know the time nor the hour regarding the end of the world.

Annie
 
Annie39 said:
Thank you very much Gusto. Hmmm Perth, Australia, where they put prawns not shrimp on the barbi 🙂 sounds like a beautiful place to live.

Annie
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You’re welcome Annie,
I may sound biased but it is pretty nice.
Yep prawns not shrimps.
Often we say lobster but the correct word should be crayfish (down this way anyway) - that goes on the barbie too!
I can only see my self ever visiting other cities as there aint no place like home.

Plus my veggie garden needs me.

BTW, have you listened to the series Hail Holy Queen with Scott Hahn. He discusses the book so there is some repetition however the spoken word does address points differenly than the written word at time. I found this the case with First Comes Love, one of Scotts other books.

God bless you and have a fantastic weekend.
Gary
 
Gusto said:
You’re welcome Annie,
I may sound biased but it is pretty nice.
Yep prawns not shrimps.
Often we say lobster but the correct word should be crayfish (down this way anyway) - that goes on the barbie too!
I can only see my self ever visiting other cities as there aint no place like home.

Plus my veggie garden needs me.

BTW, have you listened to the series Hail Holy Queen with Scott Hahn. He discusses the book so there is some repetition however the spoken word does address points differenly than the written word at time. I found this the case with First Comes Love, one of Scotts other books.

God bless you and have a fantastic weekend.
Gary
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Yes, I listened to the series (I think that it is still current I could be wrong).

My son just returned from Mexico where his American friend and his new wife, an Australian were wed. He (son) told me that the lady gets a little bugged when American’s say “put another shrimp on the barbie”. But this is the fault of one of your compatriots I think. 🙂

Annie
 
I would like to just address Scott Hahn in general. He is an excellent author. His book called “The Lamb’s Supper: The Mass as Heaven on Earth” completely and totally transformed the way that I look at the Mass forever. Now, going to Mass is almost never considered to be a “chore” by me but a pleasure and a time to literally experience Heaven on earth. 🙂
 
I just read this book, it’s a good one!

One possible point that came up in my head while reading the OP was this:

She was shown to be the “queen mother” and, in this respect, is a type of Mary. She brings a cause (or request, or petition) before the king. The fact that the king even listened is a sign of her influence/closeness to the king.

However, in the end, the king’s will was done.

Similarly, if Mary takes our petitions before her Son, it is still God’s will that is done.
 
sleeping_gecko said:
I just read this book, it’s a good one!

One possible point that came up in my head while reading the OP was this:

She was shown to be the “queen mother” and, in this respect, is a type of Mary. She brings a cause (or request, or petition) before the king. The fact that the king even listened is a sign of her influence/closeness to the king.

However, in the end, the king’s will was done.

Similarly, if Mary takes our petitions before her Son, it is still God’s will that is done.
Click to expand...
That is a good interpretation although it occurred to me too but I thought that in heaven Mary always prayed according to God’s will although I know of no proof of this in either scripture or tradition so you may be correct. Will we have the pleasure of welcoming you home to Rome sometime soon?

Annie
 
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