Born Homosexual? Does it matter?

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I am starting this thread as a way to post a continuance of a thread that has not had any activity lately. I would like to add a couple thoughts that hadn’t been expressed. First of all, and without any desire to call attention to myself, it is relevant that I mention I am a physician (practicing Internal Medicine) and have been an Assistant Clinical Professor at a major southern California university.
  1. There is NO scientific evidence that homosexuality is a genetic trait. There was 1 study done over 5 years ago, authored by an avowed homosexual, which claimed to have found a “genetic marker” (to use a simple lay term) for homosexuality. That study has since been repudiated and found to have been severely flawed in design and conclusion. The poor quality of the study was determined not by anti-homosexuals with an axe to grind but by independent scientists.
  2. There is some good evidence to suggest homosexuality is environmental rather than genetic. First let me give an example. Schizophrenia is a mental disease that has a very strong genetic tendency. The way science has been able to determine this is through IDENTICAL TWIN studies (two persons with nearly IDENTICAL DNA). The authors used IDENTICAL TWINS given up for adoption and separated at birth thereby eliminating environment as a cause. What the scientists found was that there was an extremely high concordance rate of schizophrenia with identical twins raised in different environments, showing it was genetically determined. Now when these studies were done regarding homosexuality there was not a significantly increased rate of homosexuality in IDENTICAL TWINS raised in different environments. In other words, if one identical twin was homosexual, the likelihood of his identical twin (who was raised in a different environment) was not significantly greater than would naturally be expected. Therefore it does not seem to be a genetic predetermination. (These studies were done predominantly in the ‘60s and early ‘70s, but isn’t it interesting that they have not been repeated and you NEVER hear anyone in the media or health care professions talk about them?) What probably does exist is a genetic susceptibility in the way that alcoholism has a genetic susceptibility. No one is born an alcoholic but early life traumas and psychological trauma can cause these persons to seek ways to self-treat their psychological pain leading to drug and/or alcohol use. Homosexuality is probably similar either based on different psychological genetic tendencies or different life (psychological) traumas or a combination of the two.
… continued next post …
 
… continued from previous thread …
  1. Even if we allow for the idea of genetically determined sexuality, it doesn’t mean that God intended homosexuality to be a normal behavior, nor does it effect the morality of it according to Gods law. Let me elaborate. We know that smoking causes cancer, right? In fact we know of many chemicals that cause disease that we are exposed to because of our behavior – our choice. How does smoking cause cancer? The toxins from cigarette smoke are toxic to cells and can cause damage to a cell’s DNA. If the body cannot repair the damage then the cell is GENETICALLY ALTERED and will cause disease. So we have an example of how our behavior exposes us to and contributes to changing DNA, something God didn’t intend but allows in a mysterious way for our growth and His glory. How is that relevant to homosexuality? Well, throughout history there have been innumerable times that fathers, or brothers or uncles or grandfathers have committed the awful immoral act of incest. We can all agree that incest is an immoral act that God didn’t intend but men have chosen to do. This act causes the mixing of DNA that is too closely related and very often leads to offspring with genetic abnormalities. We all are aware that inbreeding of animals causes a host of “in-born errors.” It is extremely possible that in our own human history, one of our own immoral human behaviors, such as incest (but not limited to incest) led to the introduction of a genetic abnormality we call homosexuality. It therefore could be possible for homosexuality to be “in-born” without it meaning that God created it as part of our race. Again let me reiterate that the scientific evidence argues strongly against homosexuality being an “in-born” trait, but even if it does some day turn out to be, it doesn’t change the morality of the issue or Gods abhorrence of it.
  2. Let me make a point from another perspective. I have seen many people born with deformities, from blindness to not having legs or arms. What would you think if one of them went to court and demanded that they have a RIGHT to sight (for those born blind), or to run and jump (for those born without legs) and expected to be given those things based on that right? You’d rightly think they were thinking outside of reality. You might even have the mental clarity to recognize that sight (and legs, arms etc) are a GIFT, not a RIGHT, and we cannot demand to have them anymore than we can demand to have any other GIFT. Our physical bodies are gifts, and even if we have been born without sight we still have the desire to see, or if born without legs we have the desire to run. So just because we have the desire for something doesn’t always mean we are guaranteed a right to experience it. Being hard-wired with a desire for something doesn’t prove it’s something we have a RIGHT to. Sexuality is the same was sight and legs and everything else about our bodies – it is a GIFT not a right. Some people have the gift in a way that it can be fulfilled (heterosexuality) and other don’t have the gift in an expressible way (homosexuality). Those born without the gift are given a cross to carry, just as the blind. They are called to chastity and to bear that cross with love for God and offering it up for humanity knowing that aligning their will with Gods will not only enable their own salvation but for others as well.
 
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gsaccone:
… continued from previous thread …
  1. Even if we allow for the idea of genetically determined sexuality, it doesn’t mean that God intended homosexuality to be a normal behavior, nor does it effect the morality of it according to Gods law. Let me elaborate. We know that smoking causes cancer, right? In fact we know of many chemicals that cause disease that we are exposed to because of our behavior – our choice. How does smoking cause cancer? The toxins from cigarette smoke are toxic to cells and can cause damage to a cell’s DNA. If the body cannot repair the damage then the cell is GENETICALLY ALTERED and will cause disease. So we have an example of how our behavior exposes us to and contributes to changing DNA, something God didn’t intend but allows in a mysterious way for our growth and His glory. How is that relevant to homosexuality? Well, throughout history there have been innumerable times that fathers, or brothers or uncles or grandfathers have committed the awful immoral act of incest. We can all agree that incest is an immoral act that God didn’t intend but men have chosen to do. This act causes the mixing of DNA that is too closely related and very often leads to offspring with genetic abnormalities. We all are aware that inbreeding of animals causes a host of “in-born errors.” It is extremely possible that in our own human history, one of our own immoral human behaviors, such as incest (but not limited to incest) led to the introduction of a genetic abnormality we call homosexuality. It therefore could be possible for homosexuality to be “in-born” without it meaning that God created it as part of our race. Again let me reiterate that the scientific evidence argues strongly against homosexuality being an “in-born” trait, but even if it does some day turn out to be, it doesn’t change the morality of the issue or Gods abhorrence of it.
  2. Let me make a point from another perspective. I have seen many people born with deformities, from blindness to not having legs or arms. What would you think if one of them went to court and demanded that they have a RIGHT to sight (for those born blind), or to run and jump (for those born without legs) and expected to be given those things based on that right? You’d rightly think they were thinking outside of reality. You might even have the mental clarity to recognize that sight (and legs, arms etc) are a GIFT, not a RIGHT, and we cannot demand to have them anymore than we can demand to have any other GIFT. Our physical bodies are gifts, and even if we have been born without sight we still have the desire to see, or if born without legs we have the desire to run. So just because we have the desire for something doesn’t always mean we are guaranteed a right to experience it. Being hard-wired with a desire for something doesn’t prove it’s something we have a RIGHT to. Sexuality is the same was sight and legs and everything else about our bodies – it is a GIFT not a right. Some people have the gift in a way that it can be fulfilled (heterosexuality) and other don’t have the gift in an expressible way (homosexuality). Those born without the gift are given a cross to carry, just as the blind. They are called to chastity and to bear that cross with love for God and offering it up for humanity knowing that aligning their will with Gods will not only enable their own salvation but for others as well.
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Thank you, doctor. For years I have been making the same points. Whether SSAD is genetic, environmental, or a combination is really a matter of science and has no bearing on the underlying moral issues.

Just because one may be born with a disorder, or a tendency toward a disorder does not mean it is natural or acceptable.
 
Thought I’d add my 2 cents from a previous thread as it seemed relevant to this one:

The work of Harvey, Nicolosi, and Fitzgibbons is important when approaching this question. Based on their studies, it seems clear that homosexual attractions, although in most cases not a deliberate choice, is first formed as a child and in the overwhelming majority of cases is not biologically predetermined. I believe we are all born heterosexual but that a constellation of factors brings someone to the point of same-sex attractions. However, some people have gender nonconformities that may be prenatal and may predispose them under the right social and environmental conditions to same-sex attractions. Predominant social and environmental issues that may lead someone (a child or early teen) to same-sex attractions include dysfunctional same or opposite gender relationships with their parents, uncoordination (bad at sports, etc.), lack of same-sex parental figure that could substitute the absence of a same-sex parent among other things. The implication of Nicolosi’s work is that homosexual attractions could be either prevented altogether or reversed in childhood if parents were aware of and recognized the social factors that often lead to same-sex attractions and intervened as soon as possible. It’s obviously much harder to reverse same-sex attractions in adulthood - there’s alot of years of conditioning in between that strengthen the desire (which is powerful). Even then, it’s possible to reverse same-sex attractions in adulthood as evidenced by Nicolosi’s studies and the studies by Spitzer (a former poster boy for gay activists but now a clinician who acknowledges that he was wrong). Of course, gay activists emphatically condemn the conclusions that I just outlined precisely because of the implications: that homosexuality is largely reversable if treated early enough. Their “gayness” goes to the core of who they are but it’s sad that people define themselves by their sexual orientation. Little do they know that they’d be much happier if they were somehow able to reverse their same-sex attractions. Of course, that’s not the only option for people with same-sex attractions. Chastity and abstinence is the other option and although difficult it certainly is possible (that extended quote by Alan Keyes is absolutely on the mark!). For a good resource on this last point please read the book, “Beyond Gay” by David Morrison. For a good book explaining why homosexuality is not biologically determined, refer to “My genes made me do it” by Neil (a geneticist) and Briar Whitehead
 
These posts point out a very critical insight. Most so-called sceintific groups like the APA, and others, are really political agit prop more than hard science. Statistics and studies can be easily manipulated. Authentic science must start out accepting an eternal unchanging truth. Without that acceptance, moral equivalence rules the day. Today we see the fruit of science that has abandoned the truth in favor secular gods. Those fruits are homosexuality accepted as normal, contraception accepted as medically sound and helpful, euthanasia is mercy, IVf technologies as life affirming, etc.
 
I don’t think it matters. Perhaps there are those who were born homosexual…hell, I was born a sinner too.

Just because you are born into imperfection doesn’t mean you cannot be born “from above”.

Sheeze…wasn’t the rebirth they very fruit of the incarnation?

maybe I am just a simpleton
 
Xenon (I’ll assume it doesn’t mean you have a gas problem 🙂 )

You are right in that ultimately it doesn’t matter, but the reason it doesn’t matter is important. It doesn’t matter because whether it is inherited or acquired doesn’t change the sinful character of the homosexual act (not the person who is equally loved by God as anyone else) as has been described above. But if someone believes it doesn’t matter just for the sake of charity then it lends to poorly formed consciences and leads to the moral decay we see today.

You’re not a simpleton, you simply just recognize right and wrong. God bless
 
I would even go so far as to say that much of heterosexual attraction is environmentally determined, since much of what we look for in a mate is shaped by very early childhood experiences. I agree with everyone who says that the nature of the inclination is not the issue, but rather the indulgence of it.
 
Why don’t we start a thread with the title of “Born Murderer? Does it matter?”

The answer to that one, as well as this one is…

Even if you can be born this way, that doesn’t make it right.
 
ByzCath,

The reason I thought it would be helpful to make these points is so that when it comes up in conversation, either with poorly catechized Catholics/Christians or secularized persons, we can articulate the WHY without just stating a dogma. My own cenversion back to the faith came when I understood the WHY of Catholic beliefs and saw the immensely sound logic behind them. Murder is as of yet something society has not tried to rationalize(can you imagine someday murderers claiming it is a normal variant of human behavior?) and so I believe is fundamentally different.

God bless
 
Greetings

This may be a good place to add other information that is related, though not directly related.

I guess I should post a little background here as well.
I have owned horeses for 60 years. During that time, I was a professional Arabian horse breeder for over 35 years. I also bred dogs professionaly for 15 years. While doing this, I was also doing genetic studies, research and record keeping as a lay person. I worked hand in hand with veterinarians doing similar studies. We shared data which means I did have their respect. I had close friends in many aspects of the field, working with many speicies, including bottle nosed dolphins.

The gay community, continually claim that homosexuality is common in all mammals. They mention homosexual behavior that has been documented.

I have never seen a genuine homosexual mammal, other than human of any species. I have never read of any documented cases. I have seen the behavior but it was always with adolescents or when other gender animals were not available
for breeding.
Given the choice, every adult would choose the opposit gender. Adolescents always matured into normal male or females, ready to procreate.
 
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Xenon-135:
I don’t think it matters. Perhaps there are those who were born homosexual…hell, I was born a sinner too.

Just because you are born into imperfection doesn’t mean you cannot be born “from above”.

Sheeze…wasn’t the rebirth they very fruit of the incarnation?

maybe I am just a simpleton
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From a moral standpoint I suppose it doesn’t matter because it will always be against the natural law and the way God designed the sexes to be complementary and procreative regardless of its origins. However, from a societal standpoint it does seem to matter, particularly in our current culture. Gay activists and a cooperating media have been very successful at putting forth a biological origin based on a couple non replicable studies done in the early to mid 1990’s (LeVay and Hamer). Only skewed sound bites without the crucial nuances were reported in the media following those studies and to this day most people I speak to assume that the biological origin is accurate and unchallenged. It’s important because gay activists can say (and they do say all the time) that it’s the way God made them and how could God’s design be flawed and intentionally frustrating for them. The “lack of culpability” card plays very well with the average person these days and using it makes dissenters like faithful Catholics mean-spirited and intolerant. Gay activists want society to believe that homosexuality is not disordered but instead is an alternative form of normality that has God’s biological stamp on it. It’s a very clever way to ward off any opposing views and I must say, they’ve done a brilliant job of it.
 
Those fruits are homosexuality accepted as normal, contraception accepted as medically sound and helpful, euthanasia is mercy,

Does anyone else believe that Catholic persecution is just around the corner?

I can see it coming.

People will be jailed for suggesting homosexuality isn’t normal.

The pro-gay groups have been brilliant in their stealth plans since 1990.
 
John_19_59 said:
Those fruits are homosexuality accepted as normal, contraception accepted as medically sound and helpful, euthanasia is mercy,

Does anyone else believe that Catholic persecution is just around the corner?

I can see it coming.

People will be jailed for suggesting homosexuality isn’t normal.

The pro-gay groups have been brilliant in their stealth plans since 1990.
Click to expand...

It has already arrived. Every societal agency and institution has embraced sodomy as normal and equal to the marital embrace. To stand for the truth is to be seen as hateful. Up is down and down is up. Vice is virtue and virtue is vice.
 
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