Bowing at the Incarnation in the Creed

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xixxvmcm85

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The parish I attend is under the care of the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest, so our Masses are of the Extraordinary Form per the 1962 Editio Typica. Even in our one Novus Ordo liturgy the faithful kneel. My parish is in another city (even another diocese), so when I get the sudden urge to attend a daily Mass, or on Sundays in which I don’t have the time to travel an hour’s trip I have to attend a parish I’m unfamiliar with within my own city.

Almost every parish in my city completely ignores the Incarnation. No kneeling, no bowing; nothing! I’ve learned this the hard way from heat-butting the back of the guy in front of me in attempts to bow. Eventually I just gave up on it all together and followed local custom.

Should I have continued to be persistent in following the GIRM, despite any awkward moments doing so might cause? Or would this be an OK instance to take the more traditional route and kneel at that part of the Creed?
 
xixxvmcm85 said:
The parish I attend is under the care of the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest, so our Masses are of the Extraordinary Form per the 1962 Editio Typica. Even in our one Novus Ordo liturgy the faithful kneel. My parish is in another city (even another diocese), so when I get the sudden urge to attend a daily Mass, or on Sundays in which I don’t have the time to travel an hour’s trip I have to attend a parish I’m unfamiliar with within my own city.

Almost every parish in my city completely ignores the Incarnation. No kneeling, no bowing; nothing! I’ve learned this the hard way from heat-butting the back of the guy in front of me in attempts to bow. Eventually I just gave up on it all together and followed local custom.

Should I have continued to be persistent in following the GIRM, despite any awkward moments doing so might cause? Or would this be an OK instance to take the more traditional route and kneel at that part of the Creed?
Click to expand...
One part of me says: Go ahead: a genuflection is “above and beyond” a bow.
The other part of me says: Listen to the GIRM to the letter.

But if you attend the OF, I would bow. Don’t forget, it’s a profound bow, so it is a bow from the waist, not just a small one of the head.
 
xixxvmcm85 said:
The parish I attend is under the care of the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest, so our Masses are of the Extraordinary Form per the 1962 Editio Typica. Even in our one Novus Ordo liturgy the faithful kneel. My parish is in another city (even another diocese), so when I get the sudden urge to attend a daily Mass, or on Sundays in which I don’t have the time to travel an hour’s trip I have to attend a parish I’m unfamiliar with within my own city.
Click to expand...
It is somewhat awkward for someone to bow at the incarnation if he’s used to attending the EF, but the bow is done even in the Latin OF.

youtube.com/watch?v=oXcj1koNxrQ&NR=1

Credo starts at 8:40
Et incarnatus at 10:15
 
TheMc said:
One part of me says: Go ahead: a genuflection is “above and beyond” a bow.
The other part of me says: Listen to the GIRM to the letter.

But if you attend the OF, I would bow. Don’t forget, it’s a profound bow, so it is a bow from the waist, not just a small one of the head.
Click to expand...
I know it’s a profound bow… That’s why it’s awkward when the fellow in front of me doesn’t bow. I end up hitting him with my head!

In such a case is it better that I just kneel, as is the traditional practice?
 
ProVobis said:
It is somewhat awkward for someone to bow at the incarnation if he’s used to attending the EF, but the bow is done even in the Latin OF.

youtube.com/watch?v=oXcj1koNxrQ&NR=1

Credo starts at 8:40
Et incarnatus at 10:15
Click to expand...
I only bow (or at least used to) when at the Novus Ordo since such is the officially promulgated sign of reverence dictated by the GIRM for that form of the Mass. I agree, it’s a bit awkward since I’m used to kneeling due to my normal parish and the old liturgy we celebrate. Nonetheless I feel like I’m stuck in a catch 22: I can kneel (which is against the GIRM but congruent with tradition) and look like I don’t know what I’m doing, but be truthful to the act of reverence I prefer, or I can bow (despite the fact that very few if anyone else bows) and create an awkward moment where my head is intruding on the personal space of the person in front of me since (s)he is not bowing.

Or I could do nothing at all like everyone else and chalk it up to local custom, despite my heavy conscience after failing to appropriately give reverence to the Incarnation of our God.

What would you do in this situation?
 
ProVobis said:
It is somewhat awkward for someone to bow at the incarnation if he’s used to attending the EF, but the bow is done even in the Latin OF.

youtube.com/watch?v=oXcj1koNxrQ&NR=1

Credo starts at 8:40
Et incarnatus at 10:15
Click to expand...
Oh, sorry. I get what you’re saying now.

I’ve only attended the Latin Novus Ordo at my regular parish about two times, one of which was a daily Mass. There’s a good chance that the practice of kneeling for the Incarnation was a residual carry-over from the EF which is the main liturgy used at this parish. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Parish Priest has since instructed the faithful to follow the GIRM and bow in the OF. I wouldn’t be privy to such information since I very rarely attend that liturgy. On second thought, I probably should have left that bit out of my original post entirely :o
 
xixxvmcm85 said:
I can kneel (which is against the GIRM but congruent with tradition) and look like I don’t know what I’m doing, but be truthful to the act of reverence I prefer, or I can bow (despite the fact that very few if anyone else bows) and create an awkward moment where my head is intruding on the personal space of the person in front of me since (s)he is not bowing.

Or I could do nothing at all like everyone else and chalk it up to local custom, despite my heavy conscience after failing to appropriately give reverence to the Incarnation of our God.
Click to expand...
Don’t kneel or do nothing; a profound bow is prescribed. Profound doesn’t have to be a 90 degree angle at your waist. It can be 45 degrees. Still hitting the person in front of you? Dial it back to 30 degrees. I don’t think profound is ever described in terms of what angle you must achieve; I believe when it is defined the emphasis is on the fact that it is from the waist, and thus involves your entire upper body.

If I’m in a parish where I know that very few do the bow, I tend to make it more subtle, even if I have enough space. I can follow the rubrics, and those nearby will see what I’m doing, but I don’t make an eye-catching display of myself.
 
xixxvmcm85 said:
I only bow (or at least used to) when at the Novus Ordo since such is the officially promulgated sign of reverence dictated by the GIRM for that form of the Mass. I agree, it’s a bit awkward since I’m used to kneeling due to my normal parish and the old liturgy we celebrate. Nonetheless I feel like I’m stuck in a catch 22: I can kneel (which is against the GIRM but congruent with tradition) and look like I don’t know what I’m doing, but be truthful to the act of reverence I prefer, or I can bow (despite the fact that very few if anyone else bows) and create an awkward moment where my head is intruding on the personal space of the person in front of me since (s)he is not bowing.

Or I could do nothing at all like everyone else and chalk it up to local custom, despite my heavy conscience after failing to appropriately give reverence to the Incarnation of our God.

What would you do in this situation?
Click to expand...
I would bow, as prescribed by the rubrics of that form. Sometimes people start to copy folks who look like they know what they’re doing (monkey see, monkey do). It’s possible they just don’t know. So if they see one guy bow at the same point every time, they’ll think “Oh, he must be doing it for a reason” and maybe follow.

That section of the Creed calls for such reverence.

At some masses, I am the only one giving that slight bow at the name of Jesus. Oh well.
 
I am not clear on how your head could hit the person in front of you. Because of the presence of the pew or chair between you and the person in front of you, there is certainly space to bow without making physical contact. :confused:
 
Few people in my parish bow, but I do it anyway.

I’m hoping that when we have some instruction on the new GIRM, this will be included; I’ve already mentioned it to our deacon, and he agrees.
 
xixxvmcm85 said:
I know it’s a profound bow… That’s why it’s awkward when the fellow in front of me doesn’t bow. I end up hitting him with my head!

In such a case is it better that I just kneel, as is the traditional practice?
Click to expand...
Sit in the front row. Or find a seat where the pews in front of you aren’t jam-packed, where the people have some room in between them.

Do the profound bow in the OF. Don’t worry about what everyone else is doing, if what they are doing is not correct. Most of them have probably never been taught what is correct.

Many of them may ask you why you are bowing. This is your chance to explain why you are so joyful that the Lord saw fit to become flesh and dwell among us. 😃
 
Almost everyone in my parish bows, except on those Feast days when we genuflect.
 
Our pastor announces at least quarterly at the Sunday NO that “we are to bow at the incarnation”, and the book I use has it printed in red in the Creed at the proper place. Some bow when Father mentions it, then don’t thereafter. Maybe they just forget. My DH and I do bow. I admit to keeping the bow modest, because frankly I feel a little conpicuous. I intend to continue and maybe as was said, it will help others to remember.
 
xixxvmcm85 said:
I know it’s a profound bow… That’s why it’s awkward when the fellow in front of me doesn’t bow. I end up hitting him with my head!

In such a case is it better that I just kneel, as is the traditional practice?
Click to expand...
Why not? It might get a few people to wonder why such a reverent gesture and to do a bit of research.
Witnessing reverent behaviour and traditional gestures at OF mass led me to eventually educate myself about our faith and find things that have been forgotten.
 
You would think that genuflection (where there is Eucharist present) is always acceptable. But the instructions do call for a deep bow. You can’t avoid the person ahead of you? Even with a slight angle?
 
xixxvmcm85 said:
The parish I attend is under the care of the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest, so our Masses are of the Extraordinary Form per the 1962 Editio Typica. Even in our one Novus Ordo liturgy the faithful kneel. My parish is in another city (even another diocese), so when I get the sudden urge to attend a daily Mass, or on Sundays in which I don’t have the time to travel an hour’s trip I have to attend a parish I’m unfamiliar with within my own city.

Almost every parish in my city completely ignores the Incarnation. No kneeling, no bowing; nothing! I’ve learned this the hard way from heat-butting the back of the guy in front of me in attempts to bow. Eventually I just gave up on it all together and followed local custom.

Should I have continued to be persistent in following the GIRM, despite any awkward moments doing so might cause? Or would this be an OK instance to take the more traditional route and kneel at that part of the Creed?
Click to expand...
A bow of the body is required. Stay out the space in the pew in front of you.
I suggest a 45 degree bow will eliminate this problem.
 
Hah! I knew it! It’s not the practice in ANY diocesesan parish!

And that’s why I always sit in the front row at Christmas Masses. So I can genuflect during the Incarnation and chuckle at all the people who haven’t been to Mass since Easter scrambling to fall to their knees!

Hah! 👍
 
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