Breviary and Latin

[camkutz]

Hey, I’m using at the moment, Collins - Morning & Evening Prayer, so the UK Version of Lauds, Vespers and Compline from the official Divine Office. I’d like to eventually move on, and I was thinking about the Diurnale Romanum - I’d like something more traditional, but the only issue maybe with this, is that it is all in Latin… I was wondering, what is prayer if you don’t understand what you’re praying? I mean, wouldn’t it be worthless saying psalms in Latin whilst only understanding a few words?
I have a Latin Little Office of the BVM, however I don’t like how it’s the same psalms everyday, it just bores me a lot, and I kind of still don’t get it
So what is your opinion? I would buy the fuller version of the UK Divine Office, however I don’t have £50+ spare… and this is just something for the future anyway,
thanks in advance!

 

[OraLabora]

Hey, I’m using at the moment, Collins - Morning & Evening Prayer, so the UK Version of Lauds, Vespers and Compline from the official Divine Office. I’d like to eventually move on, and I was thinking about the Diurnale Romanum - I’d like something more traditional, but the only issue maybe with this, is that it is all in Latin… I was wondering, what is prayer if you don’t understand what you’re praying? I mean, wouldn’t it be worthless saying psalms in Latin whilst only understanding a few words?
I have a Latin Little Office of the BVM, however I don’t like how it’s the same psalms everyday, it just bores me a lot, and I kind of still don’t get it
So what is your opinion? I would buy the fuller version of the UK Divine Office, however I don’t have £50+ spare… and this is just something for the future anyway,
thanks in advance!

The only issue with the Breviarum Romanum is that it is not very traditional. Its basic design only goes back to 1910. On the other hand the Monastic Diurnal (and the Monastic Breviary) schema goes back to circa 500 or so, and was designed by St. Benedict. The day hours are comparable in length to the Roman Office.

Why not simply Liturgia Horarum, that is the current 4-week Liturgy of the Hours, in Latin?

As it happens I pray the breviary in Latin, at least Lauds and Vespers, occasionally the other hours. I do both the current LOTH, and a modern 1-week Benedictine schema (same as used at the abbey I’m associated with), depending on how busy I am (I don’t switch from day to day, but rather in fairly long cycles), or whether or not I’m traveling.

My practice is to chant the psalm in Latin. This serves as a sort of “meditative” mantra as the Gregorian psalm tones are repetitive, verse after verse. This helps pull me from the world because you also have to concentrate to get the modes properly sorted with the accents of the words. Then when finished chanting it, I read the psalm through in French (my mother tongue… insert your vernacular here!). The chanting helps me break away from the worldly into the sacred.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, but that’s human nature. The trick to the Divine Office is perseverance. The times where it does work more than make up for those where it doesn’t (that is, when we’re too distracted).

 

[camkutz]

Well I’ve heard that the Monastic Diurnal doesn’t have many feast propers in etc… so I wasn’t sure to get this, and I’m not sure is it - what is the word? Approved? Canonical? I know it isn’t necessary but I like that.
I’m not familiar with how to chant the psalms apart from some other chants, but for me I’d have to read through the Latin, I’m very familiar with the pronunciation and the structure of the Divine Office and the Breviary I first mentioned, all the rubrics are in Latin… but I’m feeling I want to develop onto something else soon in a few months, perhaps a Christmas present But I’ve been praying from the current book for over a year now and I feel I may want to move onto something else

 

[OraLabora]

Well I’ve heard that the Monastic Diurnal doesn’t have many feast propers in etc… so I wasn’t sure to get this, and I’m not sure is it - what is the word? Approved? Canonical? I know it isn’t necessary but I like that.
I’m not familiar with how to chant the psalms apart from some other chants, but for me I’d have to read through the Latin, I’m very familiar with the pronunciation and the structure of the Divine Office and the Breviary I first mentioned, all the rubrics are in Latin… but I’m feeling I want to develop onto something else soon in a few months, perhaps a Christmas present But I’ve been praying from the current book for over a year now and I feel I may want to move onto something else

The Monastic Office on which the Monastic Diurnal is based is still licit for use by monasteries that use the pre-Vatican II Office. The same schema though, exists in a post-Vatican II format. The one big difference is that it in both cases the Benedictine calendar is followed, which does differ from the General Roman Calendar so it’s perhaps more appropriate for monks and oblates.

The Roman Diurnal is of course licit as per the same motu proprio that allowed wider use of the EF Mass. I just don’t find it particularly “traditional”, but that’s a matter of personal opinion.

The current LOTH in Latin remains a possibility though currently the books may be hard to find (and it’s a 4-volume set), but you could use your current book alongside for the translations.

My own personal opinion though, for laity, is to use the LOTH (or Divine Office in the UK). The cost of the volumes may seem like an impediment but when I got my set (4 volumes, but in French), I spread the cost by buying one volume at a time per liturgical season, so I was able to spread the cost over a year. Used may be another option.

Overall I think the LOTH is very manageable for laity, and it’s my preferred office, but when I have time I like to do our abbey’s monastic schema in order to achieve spiritual union with the monks. It adds about about an extra 30 minutes a day.

 

[Windmill]

If you aren’t competent in Latin, then a Latin-only Office will get verrrrrry old quickly. You will be back to Collins in no time flat. Stick with something that is Latin/English. If you can’t afford a full Office right now, I’d recommend going with something like this:

Compline

It’s a simple, inexpensive way to see if you really like this version of the Office. If so, you can save up for a Breviary later. If you find it isn’t your cup of tea, no big loss.

I have the Liturgy of the Hours (ICEL), the %between%, the 1962 Breviary Latin/English (Baronius Press), the Monastic Diurnal, and the pre- and post-concilliar Little Office of the BVM. I also have the book linked above and it’s slightly larger brother from Angelus Press. I’ve prayed all of these, and I am a business owner and father of 5 boys, so my time is precious. Each form of the Office has its strengths and weaknesses, but no one version is Nirvana.

 

[OraLabora]

Each form of the Office has its strengths and weaknesses, but no one version is Nirvana.

This is very true. One also has to keep in mind what the Office was designed for.

The 1960 Breviarum Romanum was designed for diocesan clergy in a time when parishes often had two or three priests to share the load.

The Monastic Diurnal (and any Monastic Office) was designed for monks who are obligated to choir and pray 7 times a day.

The LOTH was designed with the reality of today’s clergy spread way too thin; but a bonus was that it is easily manageable by busy laity.

Then there’s the “Latin Question”…

In terms of “tradition”, the LOTH adheres to some traditions that the modern post-Conciliar monastic offices have ditched.

The 1960 BR which really is the updated 1910, ditched a lot of traditions common to both the monastic and Roman offices of the time.

I alternate between the monastic office of the abbey I’m associated with (which isn’t very traditional at all in terms of psalm schema except that all 150 psalms are said in a week), and the 4-week LOTH which oddly preserves many monastic traditions that the more modern monastic office does not. Which one I use depends on available time (right now, the monastic).

They’re all compromises. One has to pick the best fit, and then repeat and repeat again “it’s not all about me” when we bump up against peculiarities that grate. If I do the monastic from my abbey, it’s not because of any particular affection for that schema, but rather to be in closer spiritual union with the monks. Again I have to say “it’s not all about me” when the psalm order doesn’t suit my sensibilities.