BYU study: Mormons and Easter

[zaffiroborant]

I was there once when it was mentioned here on this forum. I haven’t been there since. When you take the catholics to task here, and I will promise to take the mormons to task here who bash the lds church, we will be moving forward.

But you will remain silent to mormon bashing as you have done for years now by the catholics here.

I have put my spiderman suit away for lack of time.

This is good, you admit you don’t call people on their Catholic bashing, it took a long time, like your admitting you are not a Catholic.

 

[Catholic20064]

This is good, you admit you don’t call people on their Catholic bashing, it took a long time, like your admitting you are not a Catholic.

Did he actually admit that? It’s always been hard to believe he was.

 

[yellowbird]

Your last sentences in your post assumes that mormons are not christians. If you listen to the last mormon conference from salt lake that occured over easter weekend, you will see that mormons are very much christian.=.

I had Mormon Missionaries at my door yesterday. I asked them who they believed Jesus was. The said He was God’s son, but not God. They went on to say he was “god like” … they said there were not TWO Gods… there is only one God - Heavenly Father. So I have no idea who they believe Jesus is.

The conversation was very similar to what I’ve had with JWs at my door. Jesus is “a god” but not THE God. Which sounds like two gods…

Based on their unBiblical, unorthodox view of Jesus, I do not see how they could be considered Christians since they do not know the real Jesus, but rather one reinvented by the LDS Church.

 

[TheosisM]

And yes, the symbolism is beautiful but the routine can be daunting for any non-catholic who is not used to standing, sitting and kneeling throughout the mass. And the set prayers can seem unnecessary for many non-catholics.

No different than the routine in the Endowment.

 

[why_me]

No different than the routine in the Endowment.

There is a difference. The mormon temple is off limits not only to non-members but also to mormons who can not get a temple recommend. But the Mass is open for everyone. Inside the mormon church there are two set prayers during the three hour block and they are said at sacrament meeting when the bread and water are blessed.

 

[why_me]

This is good, you admit you don’t call people on their Catholic bashing, it took a long time, like your admitting you are not a Catholic.

If I see it, I would call them on it. However since I am basically on two forums, this one and another exmormon/mormon one I see no catholic bashing by mormons. On the other forum I have admited my catholic involvement and have given the catholic church many positives.

However, I am still waiting for you to take the mormon bashing to task on this forum. I won’t hold my breath.

 

[Catholic20064]

If I see it, I would call them on it. However since I am basically on two forums, this one and another exmormon/mormon one I see no catholic bashing by mormons. On the other forum I have admited my catholic involvement and have given the catholic church many positives.

However, I am still waiting for you to take the mormon bashing to task on this forum. I won’t hold my breath.

Any criticism of Mormonism is considered “Mormon bashing” by some Mormon non-Catholics like you.

 

[why_me]

Any criticism of Mormonism is considered “Mormon bashing” by some Mormon non-Catholics like you.

Tone my friend means a great deal. Go on over to the ‘No woman will get into the celestial kingdom’ thread and read the mocking by catholics and then ask yourself, after reading those posts if you are proud to be a catholic.

 

[Catholic20064]

Tone my friend means a great deal. Go on over to the ‘No woman will get into the celestial kingdom’ thread and read the mocking by catholics and then ask yourself, after reading those posts if you are proud to be a catholic.

I’m not proud to be Catholic. I’m blessed to be Catholic. My Catholicism doesn’t depend on what other Catholics do. A poster in this thread said you had finally admitted you really aren’t Catholic. I’m glad to hear this as it is impossible to be Catholic while holding that Joseph Smith was a prophet.

 

[dianaiad]

Any criticism of Mormonism is considered “Mormon bashing” by some Mormon non-Catholics like you.

It is true. SOME Mormons believe that anything critical of Mormonism is “Mormon Bashing.” However, the vast majority of us understand the difference between honest criticism and debate—and anti-Mormon bashing and hate speech.

there is a vast difference.

While there is less of the latter here on CAF than in some other venues, there is still plenty of it, and it is NOT a level playing field. The fact is, here on CAF Catholics may be more…strident…in their disaproval of non-Catholic religions than non-Catholics can be of the Catholic faith. That is encoded in the forum rules, actually. While everyone is told to be courteous, only the Catholic faith is specifically mentioned as not proper to attack in a discourteous manner.

Hey.

It’s a Catholic forum, it’s Catholic rules, and you should be able to have a home where such rules exist. I’m not in any way against the practice, or the rules; I’m simply pointing out that this is what they are.

(Edited)

 

[dianaiad]

Any criticism of Mormonism is considered “Mormon bashing” by some Mormon non-Catholics like you.

I just got back from reading another thread on this forum, about Mormon women not being able to be saved without their husbands. I did not contribute to it, nor will I, because I don’t trust my temper.

After reading all those posts, I have to ask you…are you SERIOUS???

If you take most of the posts on that thread, and substitute the word “Catholic” for the word “Mormon” in them, those posts would be deleted so fast, and their authors would be banned so rapidly, that most of the posters to CAF would never know they had existed. The thread would be closed and everybody involved would be chastised for uncharitable behavior.

You know that.

I know that.

However, there it still is. Why? I’d like to think that it’s because nobody has reported those posts to the moderators yet…but even that says something very uncomfortable about those who write and read those posts.

…and what they see as acceptable behavior.

 

[zaffiroborant]

If I see it, I would call them on it. However since I am basically on two forums, this one and another exmormon/mormon one I see no catholic bashing by mormons. On the other forum I have admited my catholic involvement and have given the catholic church many positives.

However, I am still waiting for you to take the mormon bashing to task on this forum. I won’t hold my breath.

As I said that’s the moderators job. If they don’t feel the need to admonish people on their posts then they stand, for better or worse. You on the other hand have said repeatedly that you call people on bashing Catholics. We see ample evidence of your calling people on bashing Mormons but no evidence what so ever for your claim to defending Catholics when bashed. Post some links showing you’ve ever admonished (like you do constantly here) someone for bashing Catholics.

I am suspicious of your “positives” since most of your positives are buried in negatives, like the one in this thread:

My daughter is serving a mormon mission in a catholic country. She attended the easter service at the main cathedral. She said that when she attended the Mass, she thought of me and grandma. However, she also said that she felt like a robot as people were saying set prayers and sentences. But she liked the experience.

Attending a Mass is not easy for most non-catholics. There are set prayers and a lot of standing, sitting and knelling. It can be overwhelming. But the symbolism of the saturday evening mass can be beautiful with the lighting of the candles.

 

[why_me]

A poster in this thread said you had finally admitted you really aren’t Catholic.

I never admitted any such thing. I was born catholic and attend Mass. I attended all the Masses during the Easter weekend. Sorry to disappoint you. I am certainly more catholic than the catholic mormon bashers on this forum. If the priests I know would bash the lds church as some catholics do on this forum, I would give them heck. Fortunately, they have more charity in their heart and that is a good thing.

 

[why_me]

As I said that’s the moderators job. If they don’t feel the need to admonish people on their posts then they stand, for better or worse. You on the other hand have said repeatedly that you call people on bashing Catholics. We see ample evidence of your calling people on bashing Mormons but no evidence what so ever for your claim to defending Catholics when bashed. Post some links showing you’ve ever admonished (like you do constantly here) someone for bashing Catholics.

I am suspicious of your “positives” since most of your positives are buried in negatives, like the one in this thread:

As diana pointed out, this is not a level playing field at all. No one could get away with bashing the catholic church as other relgions are bashed here. Any mormon or protestant who would bash the catholic church would be reported by a hundred or so informers and the offending poster would be banned. It is that simple.

Now of course, catholics have been banned for various reasons. But they usually get away with it for a long time. But such are the rules, no problem.

 

[Catholic20064]

I never admitted any such thing. I was born catholic and attend Mass. I attended all the Masses during the Easter weekend. Sorry to disappoint you. I am certainly more catholic than the catholic mormon bashers on this forum. If the priests I know would bash the lds church as some catholics do on this forum, I would give them heck. Fortunately, they have more charity in their heart and that is a good thing.

But charity to the LDS seems to be for us to take the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith’s other scriptures seriously. It means accepting that polygamy as practiced by Joseph Smith wasn’t morally offensive. It means believing it really is possible that Jesus isn’t God. All of those positions are blasphemous in our understanding – they are not just small religious differences. The positions of the LDS Church are heresy of the highest degree. Our disagreements with Protestants are disagreements over the nature of authority and justification. LDS doctrine strikes at the heart of Christianity itself by denying the nature of Christ and introducing obviously flawed scripture. Because Mormons deny the eternal nature of Christ’s deity it is not surprising that Mormon culture de-emphasizes Easter. The explanation that Christ’s sacrifice is remembered every Sunday in Mormonism is lame. The same is true in Catholic and Protestant churches, but it is still thought important to have a special time dedicated to Christ’s passion.

 

[Holly3278]

It seems the LDS who have made comments think that when Christians say “celebrate Easter”, we’re talking something akin to the secular celebration of Christmas. Which, I can see how they would be against this.

First, they should learn how to celebrate Holy Days in general.

In my opinion, what they truly need to learn is not how to celebrate Holy Days in general but instead the Truth of the Catholic Church!

 

[dianaiad]

But charity to the LDS seems to be for us to take the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith’s other scriptures seriously.

No. It means that you accept that WE do, and not treat those things that are sacred to us with disdain and disrespect. You can disagree with the idea of them, and with what is in them, without being insulting.

Consider:

It means accepting that polygamy as practiced by Joseph Smith wasn’t morally offensive.

To whom? It is morally offensive to you; you don’t believe in it. However, the view of the LDS who practiced it and placed it in our history have a different view. If you are going to discuss Mormons with Mormonism, you have to deal with the idea in terms of courteous discourse.

Consider the arguments of those who call the idea of transubstantiation ‘cannibalism.’ They are only doing to you what you are here defending doing to us, y’know. (disclaimer…NO, I am not one of those people!) If you excuse yourself from respect for the believers because you disagree this much with the belief, then you cannot feel insulted when some anti-Catholic idiot repeats his idiotic diatribes.

It means believing it really is possible that Jesus isn’t God.

Actually, we happen to believe that He IS God. He’s just not God the Father.

…just to clear that one up.

All of those positions are blasphemous in our understanding – they are not just small religious differences. The positions of the LDS Church are heresy of the highest degree. Our disagreements with Protestants are disagreements over the nature of authority and justification. LDS doctrine strikes at the heart of Christianity itself by denying the nature of Christ and introducing obviously flawed scripture. Because Mormons deny the eternal nature of Christ’s deity it is not surprising that Mormon culture de-emphasizes Easter. The explanation that Christ’s sacrifice is remembered every Sunday in Mormonism is lame. The same is true in Catholic and Protestant churches, but it is still thought important to have a special time dedicated to Christ’s passion.

Indeed…so the way we celebrate our holidays is cause for disdain on your part. I wonder how you would feel if I characterized the many pageants given by Catholics for their various Saint’s days, when they bring out the statues and the relics and parade them down the street, as overblown and closely akin to idol worship. What if I characterized the trappings of fine cathedrals decorated in gold, and liturgical garments worn by the priests that represent moneys that could have fed and clothed the congregation several times over as classist and hypocritical? What if I find your penchant for lighting all those candles in front of a statue as assinine?

(another disclaimer here…the above paragraph does NOT reflect my feelings about these matters. “What if’s” here really are 'what if’s" and not reality. I got most of the ideas from reading anti-Catholic posts with which I disagree. )

I am not asking you to believe as we do. I am not asking you to accept our beliefs as ‘as good as’ yours. I am not asking you to change your opinion of JS or anything about Mormonism. I AM asking you to treat the sincerely held beliefs of others as you want others to treat your own sincerely held beliefs: with respect. Not because of the BELIEFS, but because sincere, honest and faithful people hold them.

 

[Catholic20064]

Actually, we happen to believe that He IS God. He’s just not God the Father.

…just to clear that one up.

We don’t believe Jesus is God the Father either. But we do believe he is God the Son, and that he was always God the Son rather than progressing in some way to become a God. In other words he is eternally God, a concept which Mormons deny. That denies Christ divinity because God cannot change and you claim God changed from a non-God to a God since you don’t believe Jesus was always God.

 

[RebeccaJ]

In my opinion, what they truly need to learn is not how to celebrate Holy Days in general but instead the Truth of the Catholic Church!

It goes all together.

Glad to see you around these parts.

 

[dianaiad]

We don’t believe Jesus is God the Father either. But we do believe he is God the Son, and that he was always God the Son rather than progressing in some way to become a God. In other words he is eternally God, a concept which Mormons deny. That denies Christ divinity because God cannot change and you claim God changed from a non-God to a God since you don’t believe Jesus was always God.

Catholic 20064, you are showing a basic misunderstanding of LDS beliefs in the Godhead, here.I understand that you don’t understand, but I would prefer it if you would present your opinion AS your opinion, rather than as a categorical declaration of LDS doctrine. Especially since you have it wrong in a very basic and deep level.

Yes, our understanding of the Trinity is different. That does not mean that you have OUR view of it correct.