Byzantine Catholic...psalm 50 ..my morning prayers

[festusbali]

Against you alone have I sinned,
and I have done evil before you,
so that you may be justified in your words,
and may prevail when you are judged…

What does this mean…“when you are judged”?..it reads as if God will be judged???

=2019-08-31 timezone=“America/Denver”

 

[Wesrock]

Against you alone have I sinned,
and I have done evil before you,
so that you may be justified in your words,
and may prevail when you are judged…

What does this mean…“when you are judged”?..it reads as if God will be judged???

=2019-08-31 timezone=“America/Denver”

What translation are you using? I’ve checked a few others and it’s God doing the judging. For example, from the RSVCE:

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned,
and done that which is evil in thy sight,
so that thou art justified in thy sentence
and blameless in thy judgment.

(This is Psalm 51 in many Bibles)

 

[esieffe]

I think King David wrote this Psalm after an adulterous affair and the death of the woman’s husband after David assigned him to the front, leading to the husband’s death. I hope I have that right.

He is repenting in this psalm, and the words make it clear that he truly feels anguish. It is an excellent psalm/ prayer, and demonstrates God’s great mercy to those who truly repent, no matter how bad their crimes are.

Someone correct me if I have this wrong, but I don’t think so.

Am I missing the point of this discussion?

 

[GordonP]

What translation are you using? I’ve checked a few others and it’s God doing the judging.

I first thought it was a mistake. But that is what the Douay-Reims says. But that doesn’t agree with the Vulgate, or any other translation I can find, which says “iudicaveris” (you will judge).

“To thee only have I sinned, and have done evil before thee: that thou mayst be justified in thy words, and mayst overcome when thou art judged.”

“tibi soli peccavi et malum coram te feci ut iustificeris in sermonibus tuis et vincas cum iudicaveris”

It seems to be a mistake, as the Latin for “you will be judge” is off by a single letter: “iudicaberis”, with “b” instead of “v”.

That’s just my best guess, though.

Maybe a Spaniard was involved somewhere, as b and v are pronounced the same in Spanish.

 

[Wesrock]

Wesrock:

What translation are you using? I’ve checked a few others and it’s God doing the judging.

I first thought it was a mistake. But that is what the Douay-Reims says.

You’re right. My Douay Rheims Challoner reads that way. Odd. As you say, this seems an obvious misprint/translation not present in other versions or even the Latin on which it’s based.

…

I dug into my Haydock commentary, and Bishop Haydock notes that the Hebrew reads “when thou judges” but that Saint Jerome actually uses “judicaberis,” so the Vulgate at the time of this translation seems to match the English in the DRC.

As you noted, it’s one letter difference, and one that’s since been corrected. Traditional readings of this (mis) translation that God is being judged don’t take this as a sentencing of God. Instead, it seems to take it as men unfairly judging that God is unjust in his words and the psalmist is being dismissive of such attitudes, as God is just and pure.

 

[Mary888]

Interesting. I have a Douay Rheims bible app. It says as the OP states:
50:6. To thee only have I sinned, and have done evil befoer thee: that thou mayst be justified in thy words, and mayst overcome when thou art judged.
I think it refers to the time when Christ was judged (wrongly, but still judged by people). So it is prophetic since this is a Psalm of Prophet David.
The way I read it is that David admits all his sins in front of God so when God (Christ) will be judged here on earth God is justified, through the sins admitted by David (against those who judged Him) to judge back. So this way David chooses to be the one judged by people rather than let God be judged.
Thank you this is a very beautiful thing you discovered about David’s faith. Most people just discuss his kingdom but his faith, his complete love and loyalty to the Lord, is rarely mentioned.
This is truly impressive.

 

[Mary888]

I also see in this way of phrasing that David puts his sins before the Lord so when the Lord is judged to make sure that he, himself, David, does not judge the Lord together with those who do it, but rather he presents himself as sinful in front of Him and unable to judge God.

 

[Prodigal1984]

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned,
and done that which is evil in thy sight,
so that thou art justified in thy sentence
and blameless in thy judgment.

This is very similar to the Prayer of Manasseh
I am weighted down with many an iron fetter, so that I am rejected because of my sins, and I have no relief; for I have provoked thy wrath and have done what is evil in thy sight, setting up abominations and multiplying offenses.
The Prayer of Manasseh 1:10 RSV

 

[Mary888]

And this also brings back the memory of David’s greatgreatgranddaugther, Virgin Mary, when Christ was judged the spear pierced her heart too. She also wanted to be judged instead of Him. But unlike David’s her heart was not just pure but immacculate and this added up to the judgement of Christ being unfair.

 

[ReaderT]

What translation are you using

That was also my question: The translation I use says “victorious in Thy judgment”.

 

[festusbali]

Thanks. I appreciate your answer.

I don’t know the translation …I’ve tried unsuccessfully to find out at the byzantine site
Where I read my
morning prayers.

…Seems like an error.

 

[Thomasbradley312]

Yah in newer translations it is. This verse was actually used as a Responsory after the first reading of the Office of Readings yesterday along with the Prayer of Manasseh.

Responsory
Prayer of Manasseh 9-10; Ps 51:3-4

℟. My sins are more in number than the sands of the sea. My transgressions abound, and I am not worthy to look up and gaze at the height of heaven because of the number of my wrongdoings, because I have provoked your wrath. I have done what is evil in your sight.
℣. My offences, truly I know them; my sin is always before me. Against you, you alone, have I sinned. I have done what is evil in your sight.

 

[pacloc]

I think that the term has more to do with entering into a controversy between the sinner and God. The sinner that is unrepentant in a way judges that his action is good therefore judging God and His Way as inferior. This is the meaning of God being justified in His Words. God will not be judged in the way we think about it as far as man will be judged; but when we oppose God, we judge Him, which is really silly because without God we are nothing and will die in our sins, hence Holy David’s plea for forgiveness and cleansing of his sins.

Like others have mentioned, it is also a foreshadowing of Christ’s Incarnation, Death, and Resurrection, because it is the sins of man that enslaved us to Sin, Death, and the Devil because we judged God’s Way to be wrong. We followed after the Devil’s temptation even though we had everything we needed and had no problem choosing to reject God’s command to abstain for a time from the Tree of Knowledge of God and Evil. We all since then have committed the same sin of choosing the Devil and our own Ego over God. God in His Love has made the most effective method of salvation for us by bowing the Heavens and becoming man and destroying sin and death in His flesh so that we can share in this victory if we are recreated and put on Christ in Baptism and imitate His Holy Life. Christ triumphed over the judgment that put Him to death and His Words are justified as being Life. The wicked have been shown that they reject the Light and prefer the Darkness, and that they have been conquered and will be finally sent off into isolation at God’s final Judgment. In the meantime their existence is useful for those that will become Righteous in various ways.