Calling the Father Grandfather?

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Bonnie

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Three questions:
  1. Is it permissible for the priest to use Grandfather instead of Father in the prayers at Mass?
  2. Is it permissible to use Grandfather instead of Father in prayers outside of the Mass?
  3. Does it make a difference if this is done on an Indian reservation?
Simple yes or no replies are fine.
 
Bonnie said:
Three questions:
  1. Is it permissible for the priest to use Grandfather instead of Father in the prayers at Mass?
  2. Is it permissible to use Grandfather instead of Father in prayers outside of the Mass?
  3. Does it make a difference if this is done on an Indian reservation?
Simple yes or no replies are fine.
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  1. No. The prayers of the Mass cannot be altered.
  2. Seems odd to me. I lean toward no on this, but I can’t say with absolute certainty. I don’t think private devotions are really legislated but it doesn’t sound kosher to me.
  3. :confused:
 
Generic_Name said:
  1. No. The prayers of the Mass cannot be altered.
  2. Seems odd to me. I lean toward no on this, but I can’t say with absolute certainty. I don’t think private devotions are really legislated but it doesn’t sound kosher to me.
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Thanks - that’s what I thought.
Generic_Name said:
  1. :confused:
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The reasoning seems to be that if Indians call the Great Spirit Grandfather, then it should be OK to call God the Father Grandfather. Doesn’t sound quite right to me. But I’m not a theologian.
 
Calling him Grandfather obscures his real relationship to us. If JESUS was our father, then HIS father would be our Grandfather. But we’re supposed to see Jesus as our brother, and God as our common Father.

I understand why the Indians may call the Great Spirit ‘Grandfather’ - older, wiser, etc, but I don’t think that confusing them concerning the issues above is worth it for a little cultural kowtowing.
 
Bonnie said:
Thanks - that’s what I thought.

The reasoning seems to be that if Indians call the Great Spirit Grandfather, then it should be OK to call God the Father Grandfather. Doesn’t sound quite right to me. But I’m not a theologian.
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Depends on the tribe. We just always called God well we called him God but most of my family is Protestant or at least the Indians in my family have been Protestant none of us practice the traditional religion. And there’s the caveat that I am clearly not full blooded. I think referring to God as a great spirit is better than calling God the great spirit it’s not entirely inaccurate but I feel like there’s a lot missing when you say that I feel like father-son relationship works a lot better
 
No.

God revealed himself as Father, not Grandfather.

And no, not even a Mass on a First Nations. This goes to the nature of God; in this matter, we catechize, not adapt. We can adapt and inculturate on many things. Not this one.
 
In the private sense, I think it would be in between. I mean 1. is calling God Grandfather due to a history of “pretend” Christians who were really still not so? OR is it true reverence? God is Called many things due to linguistics, so one more may not necessarily be a bad thing. And thinking of how a person sometimes gains irregular terms like this out of respect, I suppose one could apply that logic here. But I think the whole thing runs the risk of line crossing while not necessarily being sinful in its purest form.
 
Bonnie said:
Three questions:
  1. Is it permissible for the priest to use Grandfather instead of Father in the prayers at Mass?
  2. Is it permissible to use Grandfather instead of Father in prayers outside of the Mass?
  3. Does it make a difference if this is done on an Indian reservation?
Simple yes or no replies are fine.
Click to expand...
Grandfather is not the same. However, in many languages, some words are synonymous. For example, the commonly used word in Malayalam for ‘grandfather’ in contemporary times is ‘appachen’, which actually means ‘great’ or ‘grand’ ‘father’. But this term ‘appachen’ is commonly used in reference to Jesus, especially by devout folks, children, but God the Father is called ‘Pithave’ also meaning ‘father’.

In American English, it probably would cause confusion. But in the native language on a reservation, it may or may not.
 
Wrong theology unless English has come up with some new meanings again.
 
What - if anything - should I do about this situation? It’s not my home parish. But I do know the priest and he is rather touchy - to put it nicely - about being told he’s wrong. He’s a Jesuit, so I don’t know how much authority the bishop has over him.
 
Bonnie said:
What - if anything - should I do about this situation? It’s not my home parish. But I do know the priest and he is rather touchy - to put it nicely - about being told he’s wrong. He’s a Jesuit, so I don’t know how much authority the bishop has over him.
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What can you do? He has a Superior, and I guess you could take that route if you feel you personally need to do something and it needs addressed. I also wonder if you could not also address this with the Bishop, as his parishioners are not Jesuits and would be under the care of the Bishop of the Diocese, who would want the people taught correctly. He would then probably address the Superior if he chose to.

We had a situation in our diocese many years ago in which a religious order priest disobeyed his superior and refused to be transferred when the monastery closed. Then he started saying illicit Masses. The Bishop of the Diocese then warned all the people in the diocese that they were not to attend these Masses, the priest had no faculties in the diocese. He could not do anything about the rogue priest except deny him faculties in the diocese, but he still had charge of the people.
 
Bonnie said:
Three questions:
  1. Is it permissible for the priest to use Grandfather instead of Father in the prayers at Mass?
  2. Is it permissible to use Grandfather instead of Father in prayers outside of the Mass?
  3. Does it make a difference if this is done on an Indian reservation?
Simple yes or no replies are fine.
Click to expand...
That is indeed troubling. It seems to move God farther from us. And inserts language and a relationship God himself did not approve., what’s next? Cousin?
 
From page 45 of “Teaching Spirits: Understanding Native American Religious Traditions” by Joseph Epes Brown (page view on Google Books)
the Lakota term for “Grandfather,” Tunkashila, means “the Great Spirit” or “the Creator”
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Hoosier_Daddy said:
what’s next? Cousin?
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Well, I see that a paternal uncle is called by the same word as a father, até.
 
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