The Camaldolese are strictly enclosed. The Benedictines are not. Both are bound to their monasteries or abbeys, in keeping with the vow of stability.
I don’t know anything about the arrangement that they have in CA. My friend whom I visit is in Bloomingdale, OH. They have hermitages. I believe they have only 10 or 12. It doesn’t look like many buildings to me, not from the guest house where I visit.
Thank you for your very helpful and informative response, and for taking the time to answer!The Camaldolese are strictly enclosed. The Benedictines are not. Both are bound to their monasteries or abbeys, in keeping with the vow of stability.
The Camaldolese avoid all contact with the laity. Their founder believed (was probably right) that the laity bring only trouble to the conemplative mind. That they always had an issue or a complaint about something and that they wanted to control religious life. He decided to take his monks out of harms way by separating from as much as he could from the world. Therefore, they have very little contact with the world, including the rest of the Church. Not to say that they are not Catholic. On the contrary, they are very faithful Catholic men. But they do not engage in the issues that we engage in out here. They try to live as if nothing is happening around them. This protects their inner silence and allows them to live the bonds of community with each other without conflicts. Whereas the Benedictines are much more involved in scholarship and thus more involved in the contemporary issues of the Church.
The Camaldolese are also much poorer. The Benedictine rule does not require that monks be poor, only that they hold all assets in common for the good of the monastery. The Camaldolese share with the Capuchin Franciscans the ideal of total poverty. They have had great influence on each other. Therefore the monks in a Camaldolese house have no personal property and have no use of anything except tools to work and study.
The Camaldolese are strictly OF in their liturgy, though they celebrate it in Latin. They take to heart the command of St. Benedict that the liturgy must be the shared experience of the Church. So they follow the OF, because it is the official form of the Latin rite.
The Camaldolese ordain very few men. They typically ordain only enough priests for the needs of the monastery. The Benedictines are more generous with whom they allow to become priests. Both have a mandate from St. Benedict to be an order of brothers; but the Camaldolese are more strict about it.
Each Benedictine Monastery or Abbey is a self contained unit, meaning that they are autonomous. Even though they belong to a federation. The Camaldolese are more closely related to their other monasteries, even though each abbot is like a bishop with absolute power over his monks.
Silence plays a big part in the day of the Camaldolese, whereas it is not a requirement of the Benedictine except for certain times of the day and in certain parts of the house.
Penance is very important to the Camaldolese. That is not to say that the Benedictine do not do penance. But the Camaldolese are more ascetical. Again, they and the Capuchin Franciscans have had great influence on each other since they have a relationship that goes back to the 1500s.
Both groups of Benedictines are wonderful groups. It all depends on how much asceticism you feel called to life and how much or how little involvement you feel called to have with the rest of the world and the Church. A very good friend of mine who is a Camaldolese and I were talking about liturgy and I mentioned the SSPX. He asked me if that was an acronym for a sports team. I bent over laughing. He had never heard of them or of the issue. That’s how far away they stay from the world. When I told him about CAF and what some people on CAF write he covered his ears and said, “Please, you’re going to drive me mad. I had enough bickering when I was a lawyer. I’m so glad to have found peace and silence where the only voice I can hear is the voice of God.” I was very impressed by this. So I make it a point to visit him when I’m out that way. I love them and the Carthusians. They are similar, but not the same.
Fraternallly,
Br. JR, OSF
These are not Benedictines. They sound like a new community that is just getting off the ground. No pun intended, since they are called Tower Hermits.
I thought hermits lived away from everyone…these people live on the fringes or in a city…I looked at the links they have supplied to other websitesThese are not Benedictines. They sound like a new community that is just getting off the ground. No pun intended, since they are called Tower Hermits.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
I think they might be Carmelites…one of the links to me to a Carmel siteThese are not Benedictines. They sound like a new community that is just getting off the ground. No pun intended, since they are called Tower Hermits.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Their website tells you that they follow the rule of St. Columba. St. Columba was not a Carmelite. The Carmelites follow the rule of St. Albert The rule of St. Columbais a rule that he wrote for his community. It was approved for use only in his community, but not for universal use.
This is not accurate.
Thanks Br. David. I always forget the BVM Franciscans as we call them. I didn’t know about the Benedictines.
It’s the same order. But as we know, in the Benedictine tradition each house has it’s own chapter and they often have their own disciplines. I know that it’s very small. I don’t think they have more than 10 or 12 members. They’re very enclosed and maintain their distance from the hussle and bussle of outside life. Does that describe the California group? I know that the guys in California have a house of studies near the university. I’m not sure which monastery runs that or how involved they are with the university, besides taking classes there. I guess it’s like the Trappists in VA. They used to come to Washington to attend classes with us at CUA, but would return to the monastery and not get too involved in university activities, not even study groups. But they were very friendly.
you are referring to one of the many communities proposed by a foundress Gemma.
I need to take exception to a number of things Br JR has said about the Camaldolese Benedictines. The main difference between Benedictines and Camaldolese Benedictine is that the latter combines eremitical with cenobitical life. Benedictinism is primarily about cenobitical life and the Rule of benedict is about life in community, not eremitical life. OSB Cam’s embrace a threefold good which includes solitude (eremiticsm), koinonia (cenobitism), and evangelization (or martyrdom).The Camaldolese avoid all contact with the laity. Their founder believed (was probably right) that the laity bring only trouble to the conemplative mind. That they always had an issue or a complaint about something and that they wanted to control religious life. He decided to take his monks out of harms way by separating from as much as he could from the world. Therefore, they have very little contact with the world, including the rest of the Church. Not to say that they are not Catholic. On the contrary, they are very faithful Catholic men. But they do not engage in the issues that we engage in out here. They try to live as if nothing is happening around them. This protects their inner silence and allows them to live the bonds of community with each other without conflicts. Whereas the Benedictines are much more involved in scholarship and thus more involved in the contemporary issues of the Church.
The Camaldolese are also much poorer. The Benedictine rule does not require that monks be poor, only that they hold all assets in common for the good of the monastery. The Camaldolese share with the Capuchin Franciscans the ideal of total poverty. They have had great influence on each other. Therefore the monks in a Camaldolese house have no personal property and have no use of anything except tools to work and study.
The Camaldolese are strictly OF in their liturgy, though they celebrate it in Latin. They take to heart the command of St. Benedict that the liturgy must be the shared experience of the Church. So they follow the OF, because it is the official form of the Latin rite.
The Camaldolese ordain very few men. They typically ordain only enough priests for the needs of the monastery. The Benedictines are more generous with whom they allow to become priests. Both have a mandate from St. Benedict to be an order of brothers; but the Camaldolese are more strict about it.
Each Benedictine Monastery or Abbey is a self contained unit, meaning that they are autonomous. Even though they belong to a federation. The Camaldolese are more closely related to their other monasteries, even though each abbot is like a bishop with absolute power over his monks.
Silence plays a big part in the day of the Camaldolese, whereas it is not a requirement of the Benedictine except for certain times of the day and in certain parts of the house.
Penance is very important to the Camaldolese. That is not to say that the Benedictine do not do penance. But the Camaldolese are more ascetical. Again, they and the Capuchin Franciscans have had great influence on each other since they have a relationship that goes back to the 1500s.
. . .
Fraternallly,
Br. JR, OSF
Thank you sister. This adds to my knowledge of the Camaldolese. What I have read about them is not very contemporary. But you have put me up to speed. I am greatful for your contribution. If I may, I’d like to ask another question.
Dear Brother,Thank you sister. This adds to my knowledge of the Camaldolese. What I have read about them is not very contemporary. But you have put me up to speed. I am greatful for your contribution. If I may, I’d like to ask another question.
I noticed that you wear a habit, but your signature says Oblate. I’m confused again. As a Franciscan I can’t claim to be an expert on Benedictine organization. But I thought that the oblates were seculars or did I get that wrong?
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF