Camille Paglia: Transgender and Civilization's Decline

[JimG]

From a Rod Dreher column

“A reader sends in this clip from a Camille Paglia discussion at last fall’s Battle Of Ideas festival in the UK, in which the lesbian scholar and provocateur identifies transgenderism as a mark of a civilization deep into decadence, nearing collapse. The good stuff starts at the four-minute mark.
She says that androgyny becomes prevalent “as a civilization is starting to unravel. You find it again and again and again in history.”

theamericanconservative.com/dreher/paglia-transgender-civilizations-decline/

 

[BlueEyedLady]

In an age of nuclear weapons, rogue states, well organized and funded terrorism, climate change, economic reordering (and disorder) due to a rapidly changing global market, war, hunger, violence, etc. the way she has chosen to describe this “problem” is almost precious. Even domestically there’s violence, crime, drug addiction, overflowing prisons, failing schools, and the list goes on and on.

I simply can’t wrap my mind around the luxury and privilege it must take to be so concerned about transgenderism ending civilization. If she wants an example of decadence in the West, I’d point to our wealth and materialism, and then to the lead poisoned kids in Flint still waiting for clean drinking water. You know, real problems.

 

[Beryllos]

In an age of nuclear weapons, rogue states, well organized and funded terrorism, climate change, economic reordering (and disorder) due to a rapidly changing global market, war, hunger, violence, etc. the way she has chosen to describe this “problem” is almost precious. Even domestically there’s violence, crime, drug addiction, overflowing prisons, failing schools, and the list goes on and on.

I simply can’t wrap my mind around the luxury and privilege it must take to be so concerned about transgenderism ending civilization. If she wants an example of decadence in the West, I’d point to our wealth and materialism, and then to the lead poisoned kids in Flint still waiting for clean drinking water. You know, real problems.

Amen! I would even rate legalized marijuana and a smartphone in every schoolchild’s hand more significant signs of decline than transgenderism.

 

[JimG]

Another quote from the article:

“People who live in such times feel that they’re very sophisticated, they’re very cosmopolitan,” she says. But in truth, they are evidence of a civilization that no longer believes in itself. On the edges of that civilization are “people who still believe in heroic masculinity” — the barbarians. Paglia says that this is happening right now, and that there’s this tremendous “disconnect” between a culture that’s infatuated with transgenderism, and “what’s going on ‘out there’.” She sees it as “ominous.” And she’s right to. This insanity cannot last.”

There are many ways for a civilization to decline. Paglia is pointing out only one of them. I have to agree that “the insanity cannot last.” Sometimes I think there is an advantage to being old in a dying civilization.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

Paglia was not referring to transgenderism being the cause of ending a civilization. She was saying that the luxury and privilege it must take to be concerned with transgenderism is cause for concern; and that those levels of luxury and privilege do not last very long historically.

I happen to agree with her. It’s a simple point to understand, that Paglia makes, unless one wants to spin it.

 

[ClearWater]

In an age of nuclear weapons, rogue states, well organized and funded terrorism, climate change, economic reordering (and disorder) due to a rapidly changing global market, war, hunger, violence, etc. the way she has chosen to describe this “problem” is almost precious. Even domestically there’s violence, crime, drug addiction, overflowing prisons, failing schools, and the list goes on and on.

I simply can’t wrap my mind around the luxury and privilege it must take to be so concerned about transgenderism ending civilization. If she wants an example of decadence in the West, I’d point to our wealth and materialism, and then to the lead poisoned kids in Flint still waiting for clean drinking water. You know, real problems.

I think the issues you mentioned are important, but so were hers. The transgender movement is important, and we won’t know the full ramification of these decisions on society till the future. Let’s not try to trivialize or invalidate her message. She’s studied history with Greece, Germany as related to transgenderism and found patterns which we are seeing today in our own cultures. Our society is in a state of decline, and this is just one marker, one symptom. We need to take this seriously.

 

[starshiptrooper]

From a Rod Dreher column

“A reader sends in this clip from a Camille Paglia discussion at last fall’s Battle Of Ideas festival in the UK, in which the lesbian scholar and provocateur identifies transgenderism as a mark of a civilization deep into decadence, nearing collapse. The good stuff starts at the four-minute mark.
She says that androgyny becomes prevalent “as a civilization is starting to unravel. You find it again and again and again in history.”

theamericanconservative.com/dreher/paglia-transgender-civilizations-decline/

Not surprising at all. The patriarchy and clearly defined gender roles have more or less been synonymous with civilization.

 

[BornInMarch]

I have to disagree with Ms. Paglia on this.

In the United States transgender people make up only 0.3% of the adult population. While they are being discussed to a greater extent in social and intellectual circles, they are still a fringe minority.

If anything, in spite of its flaws, human civilization is actually far better than it was in the past. People are rising from poverty across the world, wars have far smaller casualty rates and smaller scales, and many technological inventions are being created which have the potential to improve the quality of life as well as to allow us to accomplish feats previously unimaginable.

 

[edwest2]

In an age of nuclear weapons, rogue states, well organized and funded terrorism, climate change, economic reordering (and disorder) due to a rapidly changing global market, war, hunger, violence, etc. the way she has chosen to describe this “problem” is almost precious. Even domestically there’s violence, crime, drug addiction, overflowing prisons, failing schools, and the list goes on and on.

I simply can’t wrap my mind around the luxury and privilege it must take to be so concerned about transgenderism ending civilization. If she wants an example of decadence in the West, I’d point to our wealth and materialism, and then to the lead poisoned kids in Flint still waiting for clean drinking water. You know, real problems.

It is quite unfair to ignore the topic. Yes, children in India are still starving.

Transgenderism is a serious problem in the West right now.

Ed

 

[edwest2]

I have to disagree with Ms. Paglia on this.

In the United States transgender people make up only 0.3% of the adult population. While they are being discussed to a greater extent in social and intellectual circles, they are still a fringe minority.

If anything, in spite of its flaws, human civilization is actually far better than it was in the past. People are rising from poverty across the world, wars have far smaller casualty rates and smaller scales, and many technological inventions are being created which have the potential to improve the quality of life as well as to allow us to accomplish feats previously unimaginable.

Yes, technology has helped human beings as research continues and treatments are approved. But what has that got to do with the topic?

What is your source for the 0.3% of the adult population? And what about children who are being encouraged to transition? Or the “bathroom bills”? Which, if a State rejects the idea, threats are leveled against it?

This is not just some topic that concerns intellectuals only. The average person is hearing about it on a regular basis through the mainstream media.

Ed

 

[JimG]

Yes, technology has helped human beings as research continues and treatments are approved. But what has that got to do with the topic?

What is your source for the 0.3% of the adult population? And what about children who are being encouraged to transition? Or the “bathroom bills”? Which, if a State rejects the idea, threats are leveled against it?

This is not just some topic that concerns intellectuals only. The average person is hearing about it on a regular basis through the mainstream media.

Ed

Title IX has been rewritten to require recognition of transgenderism, and schoolchildren are being indoctrinated as to its ‘normality.’ Any person’s ‘gender identity’ must be accepted regardless of biology, genetics, or anatomy. Ms Paglia contends that acceptance of androgyny is an indicator of civilizational decline.

 

[edwest2]

Title IX has been rewritten to require recognition of transgenderism, and schoolchildren are being indoctrinated as to its ‘normality.’ Any person’s ‘gender identity’ must be accepted regardless of biology, genetics, or anatomy. Ms Paglia contends that acceptance of androgyny is an indicator of civilizational decline.

I agree. It is a major indicator because children are being taught something that violates their normal identity.

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/08/03/pope-francis-its-terrible-children-taught-they-can-choose-gender/

Any confusion children had about their natural sexual identity usually disappeared early in their lives. The reclassification of Gender Identity Disorder (a mental illness) to a Dysphoria in the the DSM-5 by the American Psychiatric Association in 2013 shows the APA was influenced by outsiders.

“Elated activists in the “LGBT” community had lobbied the APA for the change for years.”

Lobbying for a diagnosis change is neither scientific or rational.

Ed

 

[BornInMarch]

Yes, technology has helped human beings as research continues and treatments are approved. But what has that got to do with the topic?

This thread is literally called “Transgenderism and Civilization’s Decline”. I mention technology to point out that civilization is by no means declining.

What is your source for the 0.3% of the adult population? And what about children who are being encouraged to transition? Or the “bathroom bills”? Which, if a State rejects the idea, threats are leveled against it?

This is not just some topic that concerns intellectuals only. The average person is hearing about it on a regular basis through the mainstream media.

Ed

My source for the 0.3% is The New York Times, though that’s the number most sources will state. I think I can trust this source because the New York Times supports transgender rights and thus would benefit from making that group seem more significant. As for the bills, that seems to affect politicians more than civilians. A politician can appear to support “civil rights” or “family values” if he takes a firm stance for or against these bills, thereby wining votes and getting reelected. That’a why we hear about it on media; pundits know they can get attention and support if they talk about it.

 

[edwest2]

This thread is literally called “Transgenderism and Civilization’s Decline”. I mention technology to point out that civilization is by no means declining.

My source for the 0.3% is The New York Times, though that’s the number most sources will state. I think I can trust this source because the New York Times supports transgender rights and thus would benefit from making that group seem more significant. As for the bills, that seems to affect politicians more than civilians. A politician can appear to support “civil rights” or “family values” if he takes a firm stance for or against these bills, thereby wining votes and getting reelected. That’a why we hear about it on media; pundits know they can get attention and support if they talk about it.

My point is if the NFL, which I thought only played football, can bully a state by saying they won’t play there if the state doesn’t support a bathroom bill, that is way outside their primary purpose. As an aside, now that the NFL has taken this position, they now fall into my definition of a political action committee. Shame on them.

Ed

 

[steve93]

My point is if the NFL, which I thought only played football, can bully a state by saying they won’t play there if the state doesn’t support a bathroom bill, that is way outside their primary purpose. As an aside, now that the NFL has taken this position, they now fall into my definition of a political action committee. Shame on them.

Ed

This is absolute perversion and attack of women and girls dignity. What wil these demonic people want next, christian slaves for their harems?

 

[edwest2]

This is absolute perversion and attack of women and girls dignity. What wil these demonic people want next, christian slaves for their harems?

That’s already happening. Slavery under the military style “make it sound better than it is” naming conventions. Casualties? What’s that? Dead and/or wounded. Sounds much more sterile and nicer.

freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2016/11/18/feds-2-teens-3-women-held-sex-slaves-detroit-man-custody/94081740/

abc13.com/news/sex-trafficking-victim-says-she-was-in-houston-for-super-bowl/1719505/

telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/06/flight-attendant-rescues-teenage-girl-human-trafficker/

Ed

 

[steve93]

That’s already happening. Slavery under the military style “make it sound better than it is” naming conventions. Casualties? What’s that? Dead and/or wounded. Sounds much more sterile and nicer.

freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2016/11/18/feds-2-teens-3-women-held-sex-slaves-detroit-man-custody/94081740/

abc13.com/news/sex-trafficking-victim-says-she-was-in-houston-for-super-bowl/1719505/

telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/06/flight-attendant-rescues-teenage-girl-human-trafficker/

Ed

I’m well aware, I was talking about the influx to the west.