Camping challenge, need advice

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cham101

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To everyone, I’m not a Catholic but I would strongly appreciate any comments on this. I have a dear friend with whom I occasionally backpack. He’s Catholic. When we go, he brings old gear, wears the wrong clothes, and chooses not to bring the right sleeping bag or pad for the weather. I know he owns the right equipment and gear, he won’t use it. I was ribbing him a few months ago about this good naturedly, and he got very angry. We went backpacking in October in the rain, he got drenched and cold because he refused to wear raingear, it looked to me like the early stages of hypothermia was setting in. We went backpacking in November and my friend refused to wear his coat even though it was in his pack, and he wanted to use a thin sleeping bag even though he had brought an appropriate winter bag with him. I insisted that he use the heavy bag and he got very angry with me.

After the experience in November I decided I would not be backpacking with him again, I am too afraid he will either die or I will have to carry him off the mountain. He suffers on purpose, he likes to talk about how cold he is or how wet and miserable he is. Can anyone give me any insight to this behavior? I don’t mean to offend anyone. I want to have a discussion with him about this and want to know where to start. Until we work this out I can’t see backpacking with him again.

Thanks for any comments.
 
Since you said he has the proper equipment and knows how to use it yet refuses, your decision to not go with him is very smart. You don’t want to be stuck on a mtn trying to figure out how to drag his frozen body out of the woods. I am an avid cyclist both road and mtn but I refuse to ride with anyone who doesn’t wear a helmet. If they want to splatter brains all over the road, I don’t want to be there to see it.

And your description of the hypothermia in the rain in October is so so common. Statistics show that hypothermia is more common in 50F - 60F degree weather than at colder temps. At colder temps, people will plan to be cold but at the 50F-60F range, folks will go on a hike and since it’s “warm” they don’t pack more layers. Then as they hike, they get wet either with rain or sweat, usually have on cotton clothing which is terrible at keeping moisture from their bodies and now that 50F -60F temps are dangerous because their core is starting to get cold. And since they didn’t pack extra layers to use for warmth, they slip into hypothermia. Then you have to be the one to fight with them to put on warmer clothes and to get into that warmer sleeping bag since the ability to reason goes quickly in hypothermia cases.

Soooooo, you did the right thing. Either he shapes up, you only camp with him when the temp will stay above 75F even if it rains or you need to find a new camping buddy.

Good luck!!
 
So you think he likes to suffer because he’s Catholic??

I dunno, I do alot of camping on my cross country trips and I *don’t *like to be cold, wet, and lost.

This* could *have something to do with his Faith, suffering to give something back to God. I’m not gonna judge that. I do give back, by works and money to charity.

When your start tawking about this kind of stuff with Catholics you can get into some heavy theology.

Just tell him not to do when you ain’t around, because it burdens you.

Welcome to CAF, if you have any other questions about the Catholic Faith let us know.
 
Thank you for the advice Bamarider and noclevername. I was trying to figure out why this man is doing what he does, so I googled “self-suffering” and was surprised at the number of Catholic websites this search generated, which makes me believe that his actions might be religious in nature. One Catholic site mentioned that suffering makes you sharper and more in-tune with yourself.

Noclevername mentions cotton clothing, yes that is this man’s favorite fabric. I don’t know how many times myself and other backpackers have specifically told him not to wear cotton, and yet he proudly shows up dressed head to toe in cotton and corduroy. His clothes get wet, then they suck the warmth from his body. He seems proud of his actions as if everyone else is the one with issues. I’ve been thinking about this, I can’t confirm whether this self-suffering is about his religious beliefs or not, but he does seem to be suffering on purpose.

I have taken some Wilderness Safety classes, and the trainers are very specific. They say that if someone wants to hike with a group and they are unprepared, don’t have the right equipment or refuses to abide by the rules and wishes of the leader, that the leader should refuse to allow them to participate. I don’t want to have the responsibility of having to rescue this man off a mountain, and I would be irresponsible as a leader if I invited other participants on a backpack and had to involve them in a rescue of someone who is knowingly acting inappropriately.

I’m not relishing this inevitable future conversation with him, but I would be negligent if I did not explain my reasons for my decision. I am sure he will be combative and deny my observations, but I’m through ignoring the obvious.

Thanks for the help and the insight.
 
I don’t know if it has anything to do with his faith. Have you talked to his wife about the possiblity that he may be mentally ill?

I agree with and support your decision not to backpack with him. He is a safety risk. And, even if he is imposing suffering on himself as a form of penance or fasting, he has NO RIGHT to impose that on other people! And that is what he is doing to you! If you talk to him and he says he is doing it as penance, remind him of the Bible reading we hear every Ash Wednesday, not to broadcast our good works in front of others to gain their good opinions, but to fast or give alms in secret, that our Heavenly Father only will see and can keep our reward waiting for us in Heaven.
 
cham101 said:
He seems proud of his actions as if everyone else is the one with issues. I’ve been thinking about this, I can’t confirm whether this self-suffering is about his religious beliefs or not, but he does seem to be suffering on purpose.
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I agree that this person is a bad wilderness companion.

I’m curious why you think his Catholic Faith may be the reason he does what he does. Does he say things about his Faith that strike people as kind of over-the-top? (I know some people think ***any ***conversation about religion is crazy but hopefully you know what I mean.)
 
The practice of mortification is common. Certainly this type of voluntary suffering teaches us physical and spiritual discipline. However, there is a difference between voluntary mortification and stupidity. Also, a person practicing mortification should be doing so under the guidance of a spiritual director not on their own.

People I know who practice mortification do things that are small and normal… like extra works of charity, fasting more than is required, foregoing dessert, offering up little irritations at work rather than speaking up, etc… not things that are bizarre and dangerous.

And, the Church *definitely *has something to say about pride. A person doing mortification for spiritual growth would NOT wear it as a badge of honor and act as your friend does.

He seems to be seeking attention in the worst way. Whether it is a deformity of his spirituality or a mental illness, I can’t say.

If he is a devout Catholic, suggest he get spiritual direction because the things he is doing are neither physically nor spiritually healthy.
 
there is nothing in classic Catholic spirituality which endorses making other people suffer for your carelessness or deliberate negligence. There is a long and venerable tradition, backed by the gospels, of offering our earthly sufferings up to God in union with Christ suffering on the cross, but saints and would-be saints who adopt this worthy practice do not use it as a hammer against other people, and in fact, rarely publicize their sufferings at all.

your story brings to mind the incident in the movie The Mission, with Robert diNiro and others, about the early Jesuit missionaries in Paraguay, and how the soldier who accompanied the priest insisted on dragging all his armor and other baggage as penance for his sins, and the way the whole party suffered through his exaggerated “contrition.” a good flic and well worth viewing.
 
IMHO, he is endangering both himself and you through this behavior. Self-discipline is one thing, but I seriously doubt putting your life in genuine danger (as in the episode where he nearly got hypothermia) is an encouraged spiritual practice by anyone. In my understanding severe physical self-discipline should be taken on only under the direction of a spiritual director. I can’t see any spiritual director or priest telling this guy to go out in the wilderness and take these kind of foolish risks.

There are other ways to take on penances that don’t involve risking your life. And the other posters are completely correct that this is something he should be doing in private, not foisting on you.
 
SMHW said:
I agree that this person is a bad wilderness companion.

I’m curious why you think his Catholic Faith may be the reason he does what he does. Does he say things about his Faith that strike people as kind of over-the-top? (I know some people think ***any ***conversation about religion is crazy but hopefully you know what I mean.)
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I haven’t had any deep religious discussions with this man, but one incident is very clear in my memory. We were coming home from a trip and decided to stop by my parents home. Once we got there, my mom and I immediately started joking around and laughing, as we always do.

My friend was horrified. When we got back in the car he admonished me with fury. He told me that my behavior around my mother was completely unacceptable. I asked him to explain.

My friend told me that if I was a Catholic I would understand. Mothers were to be respected and revered, and I should never joke around with my mother. He explained that he spends one weekend a month at his mother’s home, doing the yard work, painting and cleaning the gutters. That this was his duty as a Catholic son. I let the matter drop, I do things for my mother too but that is besides the point. But, yes, I thought his anger towards me was a little over the top.

I’m taking notes on everything that all of you say, puzzleannie, 1ke, SMHW, basilisk. I want to be prepared with some knowledge of this aspect of Catholicism before I enter into this discussion with him. I don’t want to pretend to be an expert in the faith, but if he admits that this is his reason for self-suffering I would like to be able to address it and see if we can work through it, at least when it comes to camping and backpacking.
 
Based on his bizarre behavior during camping, and now this new story regarding his reaction to your interaction with your mother… personally I think he’s a few fries short of a happy meal.

There are many people who suffer from various spiritual illnesses such as scrupulosity. He may also have some distorted views of Church teaching. These could have come from any number of places.

I think that you probably won’t get too far with any discussion but should try. Definitely bring up the idea of consulting a holy priest or spiritual director regarding his thoughts/behaviors.
 
Dude, this guy is a nut. There is nothing in Catholicism that backs up any of what you have described. One is not allowed to affectionately joke around with one’s mother? Since when?

It seems this guy is extremely rigid and self-righteous. He thinks the way he does everything is the right way, and criticizes and even yells at anyone who does things differently. That’s not Catholic. That’s his bad personality.

If I were you, I would back off and just let the whole friendship cool and fade into the background. I’m trying to imagine what positives this relationship brings to your life. And coming up short…
 
Regardless of his reason for self suffering you do not need to camp with him unless it is very warm out. But even then I wouldn’t take him along because he’ll probably refuse to drink water and suffer dehydration and heat exhaustion.

But seriously, don’t put yourself in danger because he wants to get himself in trouble.
 
noclevername said:
Regardless of his reason for self suffering you do not need to camp with him unless it is very warm out. But even then I wouldn’t take him along because he’ll probably refuse to drink water and suffer dehydration and heat exhaustion.
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🙂 Um, yeah, he kind of refuses to rehydrate too during the summer, but I hadn’t brought that up. But you guessed right.
 
I agree with everybody else - stop camping and hiking with this guy.

His behavior may be based in his Catholicism, but it is not healthy Catholicism. It is very self-centered.

We try to practice 4 cardinal virtues: prudence, justice, fortitude, and temperance. I think everyone here will agree that he lacks prudence.

It also lacks charity (Catholic definition: unselfish love of others) for him to force you to bail him out of his imprudent choices.

So there are a couple of Catholic principles you can use on him. 👍

Oh, and I can’t think off-hand of any saints that were beatified because they “mortified” themselves to death.

God bless you,

Ruthie
 
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