Can a married couple use ABC in good conscience if the end is a moral positive good?

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It seems that everytime someone puts up a quote in defense of using ABC in a marriage when used for “theraputic” or medical reasons someone else comes along and throwns down an opinion or something else that seemingly goes against the first quote. It also needs to be said that not all forms of ABC are abortifacients. In fact I wonder about this whole "break through ovulation and asked my GYN about it. I also remembered when we went through pre cana and also studied NFP. The NFP director told us that break through ovuation was not likely to occur so it was something we didn’t really need to “worry about”. Now it seems that any hormonal AFB is supposed to cause multiple “break through ovulations” - in fact when the “pill” came out it suppressed ovulation - period. It’s only been since the lower level “pills” have come out and their amounts of estrogen and progesterone have decreased (due to side effects is the main reason) - it still needs to be known that pharnmacists can compount a prescription of a higher amount of estrogen so there would be no “odd chance” of a break through ovulation. According to my GYN, it really is a fairly uncommon occurence (and she is a Catholic OB GYN) Anyway back to the topic and I must say that -

This quote does it for me:

Lawful Therapeutic Means
15. On the other hand, the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there from—provided such impediment is not directly intended for any motive whatsoever. (19)

That seems to leave little up for discussion to me. Also being one of the ones that needs (not wants - needs) to have ABC and does not have any desire to not be with my husband when I can, this just clears that straight up. I think it may have been put down so specifically because of some of the other notes that may seem to question this actions- rather this is something that can make it clear to almost anyone.
God Bless-
Annie AKA Ryecroft
 
What is contraception? Back to the Catechism: “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil"
Right. That is referring to rendering the act sterile in relation to spacing children. It does not refer to medical treatment, as we see from later on in HV.

If your interpretation were correct then the Church would not allow interourse after a cancerous uterus was removed. That renders the act sterile.
The fact that the action may have a different means (medical) and it renders procreation impossible does not change it from being contraceptive.
It changes the moral meaning of the action.
It’s either directly contraceptive as an end, or indirectly contraceptive, as a means for another purpose (medical, for instance). As you point out, contracepting as a “means” to space children is wrong. Why? Because it is contraception and whether as a means (spacing out children, medical, etc.) or an end (to prevent conception), it is wrong.
No, it specifically mentions medical treatment as licit. It does because that is an unintended side effect.
Medical treatment is licit. That’s why HV endorses therapeutic means. But neither HV nor the Catechism state that sex is permissible while the human body is rendered artificially infertile, whether as a MEANS or an END. In fact, they both state the opposite if you look at the language (means/end) and the fact that an evil can never become acceptable by “intent” or “motive” as stated in HV.
Then removal of a pathologic uterus would disallow any future intercourse by your standard.

Please see this:
Q. 1.When the uterus becomes so seriously injured (e.g., during a delivery or a Caesarian section) so as to render medically indicated even its total removal (hysterectomy) in order to counter an immediate serious threat to the life or health of the mother, is it licit to perform such a procedure notwithstanding the permanent sterility which will result for the woman?
R. Affirmative.
Q. 2.When the uterus (e.g., as a result of previous Caesarian sections) is in a state such that while not constituting in itself a present risk to the life or health of the woman, nevertheless is foreseeably incapable of carrying a future pregnancy to term without danger to the mother, danger which in some cases could be serious, is it licit to remove the uterus (hysterectomy) in order to prevent a possible future danger deriving from conception?
R. Negative.
In the first case, the hysterectomy is licit because it has a directly therapeutic character, even though it may be foreseen that permanent sterility will result. In fact, it is the pathological condition of the uterus (e.g., a hemorrhage which cannot be stopped by other means), which makes its removal medically indicated. The removal of the organ has as its aim, therefore, the curtailing of a serious present danger to the woman independent of a possible future pregnancy…
I link this for 2 reasons:
  1. The link does not mention sexual intercourse must be stoped after the uterus is removed.
2.It shows one can indirectly “contracept” and not be culpable for any sin. Why? because one is not contracepting at all.

Now, if you want to argue that some medication is more likley to cause spontaneous abortion that seems a separate argument. I cannot see how you hold one is guilty of the sin of contraception while they treat a medical pathology with no intention to suppress fertility.
 
Now, if you want to argue that some medication is more likley to cause spontaneous abortion that seems a separate argument. I cannot see how you hold one is guilty of the sin of contraception while they treat a medical pathology with no intention to suppress fertility.
My problem w/ ABC to ‘treat’/‘cure’ so many gyn problems is that ABC was created & is still targeted at preventing conception. Even when it is used as a ‘treatment’ for a gyn problem, the intention/action of ABC is to prevent conception - regardless of the user’s personal intention. ABC is not advertised as treating various gyn problems - its advertising is aimed at touting it ability to prevent conception. The package inserts even continually assert the ability to prevent conception not at treating whatever gyn issue is present. As a matter of fact, I don’t think I’ve seen any package inserts and/or ads for ABC that claim anything except that they are contraceptives. While its true that they can help (as in Ryecroft’s case) someone not bleed to death during their menstrual cycle, the main goal of ABC is to prevent conception. Its a side-effect that it helps ‘regulate’ the menstrual cycle - not the target. The main objective of ABC - regardless of user intent - is to prevent conception.

I understand that many drugs began as treatment for condition A, but were later found to be more effective treatment for condition B. However, most (if not all) of these drugs go through another round of FDA approval etc and become targeted toward condition B as opposed to condition A. ABC has not undergone this process to my knowledge. From what I know, ABC may help various gyn problems, but there are no efficacy statistics/reports available. Until those statistics/reports are available, I’m not personally convinced ABC is the best route for treating most gyn issues in a married/sexually active woman.

I’m very interested to know what ABC has been found to never be an abortifacient. All the general and specific (package insert) information I’ve seen lists one of the secondary means of preventing pregnancy to be thinning of the endometrium thereby reducing the likelihood of implantation. That’s the abortifacient aspect that I’m familiar with and see on all the documentation I’ve read. I’d love to be wrong about at least one type of ABC that doesn’t do that, but I’d also be interested to know what exactly it does…
 
My problem w/ ABC to ‘treat’/‘cure’ so many gyn problems is that ABC was created & is still targeted at preventing conception. Even when it is used as a ‘treatment’ for a gyn problem, the intention/action of ABC is to prevent conception - regardless of the user’s personal intention. ABC is not advertised as treating various gyn problems - its advertising is aimed at touting it ability to prevent conception. The package inserts even continually assert the ability to prevent conception not at treating whatever gyn issue is present. As a matter of fact, I don’t think I’ve seen any package inserts and/or ads for ABC that claim anything except that they are contraceptives. While its true that they can help (as in Ryecroft’s case) someone not bleed to death during their menstrual cycle, the main goal of ABC is to prevent conception. Its a side-effect that it helps ‘regulate’ the menstrual cycle - not the target. The main objective of ABC - regardless of user intent - is to prevent conception.

I understand that many drugs began as treatment for condition A, but were later found to be more effective treatment for condition B. However, most (if not all) of these drugs go through another round of FDA approval etc and become targeted toward condition B as opposed to condition A. ABC has not undergone this process to my knowledge. From what I know, ABC may help various gyn problems, but there are no efficacy statistics/reports available. Until those statistics/reports are available, I’m not personally convinced ABC is the best route for treating most gyn issues in a married/sexually active woman.

I’m very interested to know what ABC has been found to never be an abortifacient. All the general and specific (package insert) information I’ve seen lists one of the secondary means of preventing pregnancy to be thinning of the endometrium thereby reducing the likelihood of implantation. That’s the abortifacient aspect that I’m familiar with and see on all the documentation I’ve read. I’d love to be wrong about at least one type of ABC that doesn’t do that, but I’d also be interested to know what exactly it does…
Off label use can be medically sound and morally sound. This is true for all categories of drugs. If you want to argue the medical point that does not negate the moral point I am offering here. Take another drug that is not marketed as “brith control” If it is used to treat some pathology and has effects on fertility would you hold the same position?

I have not seen anyone claim the drug in question is not an abortifacient. What we have seen is the link to the good priest who said using such a drug to treat a medical condition does not mean the woman is culpable for an unintended miscarriage.
 
Nope, wrong. Intent and motive define “deliberate”.
All these terms have specific meanings in theology. A “deliberate” action is one taken with full consent of the will. So, for instance, if a husband has conjugal relations with his wife and, unbeknownst to him, she is contracepting, the husband has not acted deliberately. He has not fully consented, with his will, to a contracepted sexual act, though his wife has. This means he did not act “deliberately.” Of course, this is different from intent and motive.

Beware of facile and slick arguments that make a disputed theological point turn on the definition of one word. That should raise a red flag.
 
Off label use can be medically sound and morally sound. This is true for all categories of drugs. If you want to argue the medical point that does not negate the moral point I am offering here. Take another drug that is not marketed as “brith control” If it is used to treat some pathology and has effects on fertility would you hold the same position?

I have not seen anyone claim the drug in question is not an abortifacient. What we have seen is the link to the good priest who said using such a drug to treat a medical condition does not mean the woman is culpable for an unintended miscarriage.
It has been established that if a drug is a cure for a disease that has a side-effect of affecting fertility, the user is not committing a sin for using it. Some thyroid medications have this action, but their use is necessary for life. This is the principle of double effect that is allowed by the CCC. It similar to the situation of an ectopic pregnancy. The cure for that is removal of the diseased/injured portion of the tube. The fact that the tube contains the baby and the baby will die is an unintended and sorrowful fact, but not the reason for the treatment in any way, shape, or form. However, that same woman cannot use a drug that’s purpose is to remove the baby licitly or morally. Technically its the same end result - the woman is cured & her baby dies. However, in the 1st instance, the procedure was not intended to kill the child. In the 2nd, the only procedure used was **intended **to kill the child. IMO the same is true of ABC. The intention of ABC w/ its invention & its continued use continues to be to prevent conception. The true action of ABC is never regulated to a side effect b/c it is the primary effect as the drugs are labeled.

Off label uses are very helpful sometimes, but that does not negate the intention of the drug. Nor does it make the drug safe for these off label uses. As a matter of fact many manufacturers specifically label their drugs to not be used for off-label, although common, uses. If there is a problem w/ the person & the drug that can result in a lawsuit, the drug company is not liable for the off-label use/mis-use of their drug. If the use has not been thoroughly studied, the drug companies are not going to offer the same support. Although I realize they are doing this as a CYA gesture, I think it is prudent to use this as a guideline.

Ryecroft (I think) has submitted several times on various threads that not all ABCs are abortifacient. I’m inquiring (again) about what ABC she is using/referencing. She has posted that her Catholic Ob/Gyn is the one that told her this fact about the drug she’s using. Perhaps she hasn’t mentioned it on this thread specifically, but I think perhaps she has… I’m unable to find the post at this time, but if I do, I’ll quote it for you.

ETA: Here’s the quote & it was from this thread…
I did have pause to worry about the pill and some other methods but not only found that not all hormonal birth control necessarily is an abortifacient
 
Right. That is referring to rendering the act sterile in relation to spacing children. It does not refer to medical treatment, as we see from later on in HV.

If your interpretation were correct then the Church would not allow interourse after a cancerous uterus was removed. That renders the act sterile.

It changes the moral meaning of the action.

No, it specifically mentions medical treatment as licit. It does because that is an unintended side effect.

Then removal of a pathologic uterus would disallow any future intercourse by your standard.

Please see this:

I link this for 2 reasons:
  1. The link does not mention sexual intercourse must be stoped after the uterus is removed.
2.It shows one can indirectly “contracept” and not be culpable for any sin. Why? because one is not contracepting at all.

Now, if you want to argue that some medication is more likley to cause spontaneous abortion that seems a separate argument. I cannot see how you hold one is guilty of the sin of contraception while they treat a medical pathology with no intention to suppress fertility.
This is a serious post, quoting some authority, and new authority. It seems we agree on the following: Contracepted sex is wrong. Medical treatment which has a contraceptive effect is permissible. The only point in dispute is whether a couple can have conjugal relations while a woman is being treated for a condition, and that treatment results in an unintended effect of preventing conception.

Fix claims that when one receives the medical treatment, the treatment is not contraceptive and therefore, if one is not contracepting, one can engage in the conjugal sexual act. What is the distinction between the temporary medication and the removal of cancerous ovaries, both of which would render procreation impossible? Though I disagree with the conclusion, his claims are well reasoned, and reasonable people may disagree.

HV requires conjugal sex to be unitive and procreative. Procreative means capable of procreation. It must be interpreted in accord with the Natural Law, which requires one to use sexual organs in the natural manner, for procreation in general. Not every specific sexual act must be reproductive. Otherwise, NFP and sex after menopause would not be permitted. So, procreation has a meaning that is broader than reproduction (biological conception). While all reproductive sex is procreative, not all procreative sex is reproductive.

When a woman’s ovaries are legitimately removed, she is not capable of reproduction, but the conjugal act would still be “procreative,” because the sexual organs would be functioning consistent with the Natural Law and procreative sex. This is no different than a post-menopausal woman. Her body, due to the treatment, is incapable of biological reproduction, but she can still have procreative (and unitive) sexual relations with her husband. However, if her body were capable of reproduction, and that reproduction were thwarted temporarily, that would be different.

When a woman is on medication which renders a body that IS ACTUALLY reproductive (she can conceive) to be NOT reproductive, and this is not final (removal of organs), then that is contraception, regardless of motive, intent, or means. In this case, the woman’s reproductive capacity is temporarily masked. Since her reproduction is thwarted, she cannot have procreative sex because she has rendered a reproductive body incapable of reproduction, on a temporary basis. If the woman were post-menopause, and received the same treatment, sexual relations would be permissible because, although the sex cannot be reproductive, it still can be procreative if the sexual organs are used in accord with the Natural Law.

I believe that if you review the relevant sections of HV, the Natural Law, and the Catechism, the conclusion is that any medication which temporarily limits reproduction is contraceptive in effect, and that conjugal sex should not occur during this artificial, temporary rendering of sterility, even for a greater purpose. That’s the point of the language in HV - evil cannot be done for a greater good.

No one is saying that the woman should not receive the medical treatment - only that she must abstain during the treatment, if her body will still capable of reproduction after the treatment is ceased. This is the precise nature of most contraception - temporary sterilization and then, when the woman is “off the pill,” reproduction returns. The fact that the contraception is using temporary sterilization as a means to another good does not change its moral nature.

So, if reproduction is possible after the medical treatment ceases, then the treatment is contraceptive, and the woman should abstain.
 
This is a serious post, quoting some authority, and new authority. It seems we agree on the following: Contracepted sex is wrong. Medical treatment which has a contraceptive effect is permissible. The only point in dispute is whether a couple can have conjugal relations while a woman is being treated for a condition, and that treatment results in an unintended effect of preventing conception.

Fix claims that when one receives the medical treatment, the treatment is not contraceptive and therefore, if one is not contracepting, one can engage in the conjugal sexual act. What is the distinction between the temporary medication and the removal of cancerous ovaries, both of which would render procreation impossible? Though I disagree with the conclusion, his claims are well reasoned, and reasonable people may disagree.

HV requires conjugal sex to be unitive and procreative. Procreative means capable of procreation. It must be interpreted in accord with the Natural Law, which requires one to use sexual organs in the natural manner, for procreation in general. Not every specific sexual act must be reproductive. Otherwise, NFP and sex after menopause would not be permitted. So, procreation has a meaning that is broader than reproduction (biological conception). While all reproductive sex is procreative, not all procreative sex is reproductive.

When a woman’s ovaries are legitimately removed, she is not capable of reproduction, but the conjugal act would still be “procreative,” because the sexual organs would be functioning consistent with the Natural Law and procreative sex. This is no different than a post-menopausal woman. Her body, due to the treatment, is incapable of biological reproduction, but she can still have procreative (and unitive) sexual relations with her husband. However, if her body were capable of reproduction, and that reproduction were thwarted temporarily, that would be different.

When a woman is on medication which renders a body that IS ACTUALLY reproductive (she can conceive) to be NOT reproductive, and this is not final (removal of organs), then that is contraception, regardless of motive, intent, or means. In this case, the woman’s reproductive capacity is temporarily masked. Since her reproduction is thwarted, she cannot have procreative sex because she has rendered a reproductive body incapable of reproduction, on a temporary basis. If the woman were post-menopause, and received the same treatment, sexual relations would be permissible because, although the sex cannot be reproductive, it still can be procreative if the sexual organs are used in accord with the Natural Law.

I believe that if you review the relevant sections of HV, the Natural Law, and the Catechism, the conclusion is that any medication which temporarily limits reproduction is contraceptive in effect, and that conjugal sex should not occur during this artificial, temporary rendering of sterility, even for a greater purpose. That’s the point of the language in HV - evil cannot be done for a greater good.

No one is saying that the woman should not receive the medical treatment - only that she must abstain during the treatment, if her body will still capable of reproduction after the treatment is ceased. This is the precise nature of most contraception - temporary sterilization and then, when the woman is “off the pill,” reproduction returns. The fact that the contraception is using temporary sterilization as a means to another good does not change its moral nature.

So, if reproduction is possible after the medical treatment ceases, then the treatment is contraceptive, and the woman should abstain.
:bowdown2: 👍 :clapping: :tiphat: :extrahappy: :bowdown:
 
All these terms have specific meanings in theology. A “deliberate” action is one taken with full consent of the will. So, for instance, if a husband has conjugal relations with his wife and, unbeknownst to him, she is contracepting, the husband has not acted deliberately. He has not fully consented, with his will, to a contracepted sexual act, though his wife has. This means he did not act “deliberately.” Of course, this is different from intent and motive.
:confused:

I agree he did not act deliberately, as contracepting was not his intent nor was it his ***motive ***to avoid pregnancy by having relations with some form of contraception.

Please explain how you can remove intent and motivation from a deliberate act and that act still be deliberate i.e. if someone does not intend to do something and does not have some motivation to do so, how can they act deliberately?
 
When a woman is on medication which renders a body that IS ACTUALLY reproductive (she can conceive) to be NOT reproductive, and this is not final (removal of organs), then that is contraception, regardless of motive, intent, or means. In this case, the woman’s reproductive capacity is temporarily masked. Since her reproduction is thwarted, she cannot have procreative sex because she has rendered a reproductive body incapable of reproduction, on a temporary basis.
Let us stop right here. Why is it legitimate to enage in indirectly permanent sterilized sex, but not temporary indirectly sterilized sex?
If the woman were post-menopause, and received the same treatment, sexual relations would be permissible because, although the sex cannot be reproductive, it still can be procreative if the sexual organs are used in accord with the Natural Law.
The only difference between this example and one that is sterilized by meds is the method used to treat the pathology.

In both cases the sexual organs are altered. Fertility is suppressed in both cases, but unintended in both.
I believe that if you review the relevant sections of HV, the Natural Law, and the Catechism, the conclusion is that any medication which temporarily limits reproduction is contraceptive in effect, and that conjugal sex should not occur during this artificial, temporary rendering of sterility, even for a greater purpose. That’s the point of the language in HV - evil cannot be done for a greater good.
Well, I am open to correction from legitimate authority and I am certainly no expert, but HV says medical treatment is licit and does not say one must abstain. What HV does say is that the marital act must never be contracepted by intent, means, or end.

Again, if you are correct then surgical indirect sterilization means no intercourse is licit.
No one is saying that the woman should not receive the medical treatment - only that she must abstain during the treatment, if her body will still capable of reproduction after the treatment is ceased.
Where is this stated?
This is the precise nature of most contraception - temporary sterilization and then, when the woman is “off the pill,” reproduction returns. The fact that the contraception is using temporary sterilization as a means to another good does not change its moral nature.
This would be accurate if the woman was contracepting. Note HV says:

15. On the other hand, the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there from—provided such impediment is not directly intended for any motive whatsoever. (19)

Why does it mention the part I bolded? Treating such a case has no intention to contracept. The means used are medication to alter some significant problem which happens to suppress fertility as a side effect.
So, if reproduction is possible after the medical treatment ceases, then the treatment is contraceptive, and the woman should abstain.
Where is this teaching?
 
:confused:

I agree he did not act deliberately, as contracepting was not his intent nor was it his ***motive ***to avoid pregnancy by having relations with some form of contraception.

Please explain how you can remove intent and motivation from a deliberate act and that act still be deliberate i.e. if someone does not intend to do something and does not have some motivation to do so, how can they act deliberately?
Let’s go back to the Catechism. We are all human agents who are responsible for our choices. Our choices manifest in acts, intentions, and circumstances. “Deliberate” refers to the voluntariness of the choice. For instance,

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

So, a deliberate action is one which is freely chosen. “Intention” is the subjective purpose or motive. Intention is the movement of the will toward the end, or goal of the activity.

1752 In contrast to the object, the intention resides in the acting subject. Because it lies at the voluntary source of an action and determines it by its end, intention is an element essential to the moral evaluation of an action. The end is the first goal of the intention and indicates the purpose pursued in the action. The intention is a movement of the will toward the end: it is concerned with the goal of the activity. It aims at the good anticipated from the action undertaken.

So, if a person is hunting and sees a deer, he aims and pulls the trigger to kill the deer. His intent was to kill the deer, and it was a freely chosen act. However, if his finger slips on the trigger before he aims, and he hits a tree, he still had the same intent to kill the deer, but he did not deliberately choose to pull the trigger at that time. He did not deliberately hit the tree.

Contracepted sex is wrong, regardless of means or ends. It is “intrinsically evil.” However, a person who did not make the choice knowingly, and was fooled by his spouse, is still engaged in contracepted sex, but is not culpable for the sin if he did not choose to engage in it.

Contracepted sex is wrong regardless of ends or motive. Whether a person “intends” a pregnancy or not, it is sinful to have sex while a woman is contracepted. The Vatican’s “deliberately chosen” language refers to culpability for knowing choices.

If the woman is on contraception, and the couple wants to have intercourse for “unitive” purposes, or to “relieve stress” or any other intention, the intention cannot save the act from being sinful. The act itself (contracepted sex) is wrong. That is the whole purpose of the language in HV 14 -

Though it is true that sometimes it is lawful to tolerate a lesser moral evil in order to avoid a greater evil or in order to promote a greater good," it is never lawful, even for the gravest reasons, to do evil that good may come of it —in other words, to intend directly something which of its very nature contradicts the moral order, and which must therefore be judged unworthy of man, even though the intention is to protect or promote the welfare of an individual, of a family or of society in general.

Good intentions do not spare contracepted sex of its sinful nature.
 
Let’s go back to the Catechism. We are all human agents who are responsible for our choices. Our choices manifest in acts, intentions, and circumstances. “Deliberate” refers to the voluntariness of the choice. For instance,

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

So, a deliberate action is one which is freely chosen. “Intention” is the subjective purpose or motive. Intention is the movement of the will toward the end, or goal of the activity.

1752 In contrast to the object, the intention resides in the acting subject. Because it lies at the voluntary source of an action and determines it by its end, intention is an element essential to the moral evaluation of an action. The end is the first goal of the intention and indicates the purpose pursued in the action. The intention is a movement of the will toward the end: it is concerned with the goal of the activity. It aims at the good anticipated from the action undertaken.

So, if a person is hunting and sees a deer, he aims and pulls the trigger to kill the deer. His intent was to kill the deer, and it was a freely chosen act. However, if his finger slips on the trigger before he aims, and he hits a tree, he still had the same intent to kill the deer, but he did not deliberately choose to pull the trigger at that time. He did not deliberately hit the tree.

Contracepted sex is wrong, regardless of means or ends. It is “intrinsically evil.” However, a person who did not make the choice knowingly, and was fooled by his spouse, is still engaged in contracepted sex, but is not culpable for the sin if he did not choose to engage in it.

Contracepted sex is wrong regardless of ends or motive. Whether a person “intends” a pregnancy or not, it is sinful to have sex while a woman is contracepted. The Vatican’s “deliberately chosen” language refers to culpability for knowing choices.

If the woman is on contraception, and the couple wants to have intercourse for “unitive” purposes, or to “relieve stress” or any other intention, the intention cannot save the act from being sinful. The act itself (contracepted sex) is wrong. That is the whole purpose of the language in HV 14 -

Though it is true that sometimes it is lawful to tolerate a lesser moral evil in order to avoid a greater evil or in order to promote a greater good," it is never lawful, even for the gravest reasons, to do evil that good may come of it —in other words, to intend directly something which of its very nature contradicts the moral order, and which must therefore be judged unworthy of man, even though the intention is to protect or promote the welfare of an individual, of a family or of society in general.

Good intentions do not spare contracepted sex of its sinful nature.
None of that contradict’s Fr. Serpa’s answer.

Here is the problem. When a person is being treated for a medical problem there may be all types of side effects including a suppression of fertility. If one willed that it would be a sin. If one supressed fertility to achieve a so-called greater good that would be a sin.

None of that applies to the case we are talking about here. No one intends to alter ferility. No one uses suppression of fertility as a means to an end. What we have is medical therapy that has a side effect.
 
When a teaching such as this comes up that seems each side can be argued either way ad nauseum (as seems to be the case here) - that is when I go to a Priest to help me understand what the right thing to do is. I have prayed on this and I spoke to a Priest regarding it. Along with the Priest I spoke with as well as Fr. Serpa’s post on here with an explination (which I’m going to put up again) I have been told that there is nothing wrong with what I am doing. I urge you to read Fr. Serpa’s post as this explains it better than anything else I have heard or read. I think we’re getting to the point where we’re arguing semantics.

Here is the post again

And artifical birth control is allowed by the Church when medically necessary by double effect - even Fr. Serpa on here agrees with that:

This is a very important matter that is widely misunderstood:

The Church considers a miscarriage to be a physical evil. Since abortion DELIBERATELY causes a miscarriage, it is therefore also a MORAL evil. The Church sees an UNintended miscarriage as only a physical evil since it is not deliberately caused by the couple.

The use of the pill for medical reasons may cause an UNintended miscarriage. Women often have unintended miscarriages—sometimes without even knowing it. It is only miscarriages that are INTENDED that the Church considers immoral. The Church never allows the pill to be used as an abortifacient. But it does allow the use of the pill for medical reasons with the possiblity of producing an unintended miscarriage—without obliging the couple to abstain from sexual relations during that time.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.

God Bless
Annie aka Ryecroft
 
Once again, we have a reading comprehension failure. The book says what we must do and says why we must do it.

Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. The former is what we must do, be fruitful and multiply, while the latter is why, to wit, to fill the earth. Seems to me that we’ve filled the earth and so no need for us to be quite so fruitful anymore. We are now building into the sky, as the land is getting that scarce. Last time we did that, well, first time we refused to heed the directive and now we are exceeding the directive.

And so, no, it isn’t “intrinsically evil”, since the directive came with a statement of purpose and once the purpose is met and can continue to be met with some lesser rate of reproduction, then there is simply nothing morally wrong with not exceeding our brief [as it were]. Please, before you speak to “instrinsic evil”, learn to read and understand the plain written words. Be fruitful and multiply for a purpose. And it’s the purpose and not the means that is important. We’ve met that purpose, and all we’re doing now is taxing the carrying capacity of the planet, and if you haven’t figured it out yet, if everyone consumed at the rate of the wealthy nations, the earth would be a desert in our lifetimes. So you either concede that we populate less, and given the inclination to have sex, that means birth control, or you relinquish your wealth via sharing the same so that some don’t live in a dire poverty and we don’t turn the earth into a desert.
 
Let’s go back to the Catechism. We are all human agents who are responsible for our choices. Our choices manifest in acts, intentions, and circumstances. “Deliberate” refers to the voluntariness of the choice. For instance,

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

So, a deliberate action is one which is freely chosen. “Intention” is the subjective purpose or motive. Intention is the movement of the will toward the end, or goal of the activity.

1752 In contrast to the object, the intention resides in the acting subject. Because it lies at the voluntary source of an action and determines it by its end, intention is an element essential to the moral evaluation of an action. The end is the first goal of the intention and indicates the purpose pursued in the action. The intention is a movement of the will toward the end: it is concerned with the goal of the activity. It aims at the good anticipated from the action undertaken.

So, if a person is hunting and sees a deer, he aims and pulls the trigger to kill the deer. His intent was to kill the deer, and it was a freely chosen act. However, if his finger slips on the trigger before he aims, and he hits a tree, he still had the same intent to kill the deer, but he did not deliberately choose to pull the trigger at that time. He did not deliberately hit the tree.

Contracepted sex is wrong, regardless of means or ends. It is “intrinsically evil.” However, a person who did not make the choice knowingly, and was fooled by his spouse, is still engaged in contracepted sex, but is not culpable for the sin if he did not choose to engage in it.

Contracepted sex is wrong regardless of ends or motive. Whether a person “intends” a pregnancy or not, it is sinful to have sex while a woman is contracepted. The Vatican’s “deliberately chosen” language refers to culpability for knowing choices.

If the woman is on contraception, and the couple wants to have intercourse for “unitive” purposes, or to “relieve stress” or any other intention, the intention cannot save the act from being sinful. The act itself (contracepted sex) is wrong. That is the whole purpose of the language in HV 14 -

Though it is true that sometimes it is lawful to tolerate a lesser moral evil in order to avoid a greater evil or in order to promote a greater good," it is never lawful, even for the gravest reasons, to do evil that good may come of it —in other words, to intend directly something which of its very nature contradicts the moral order, and which must therefore be judged unworthy of man, even though the intention is to protect or promote the welfare of an individual, of a family or of society in general.

Good intentions do not spare contracepted sex of its sinful nature.
Nice explanation, and I agree. Perhaps I missed your meaning of “This means he did not act “deliberately.” Of course, this is different from intent and motive.” I assumed that you thought that deliberate action can be separated from intent and motive. Did I misundestand?

Now to the point of the discussion, the intent and motive, as you pointed out, are crucial to one’s culpability of mortal sin. The man who’s wife is secretly contracepting is participating in an act of contraceptive sexual union, no? The only thing that “saves” him from it being a mortal act is that he is participating in it without the intent or the motive to prevent pregnancy. He is deliberately participating in that act, however.

The couple who are engaged in marital union without the intent or motive to prevent pregnancy also are participating in a deliberate act, one of marital intercourse. So the same thing that “saves” the man (who’s wife is secretely contracepting) doesn’t apply to the could who’s intent is to be open to life, despite the fact that medication necessary to maintain their (one of them, at least) health prevents conception?

Non Sequitur, my friend.

Such a couple’s intent to leave the marital act open to life is thwarted by the necessity to take such medication, just as the man’s attempt to leave the marital act open to life is thwarted by his wife’s contracepting on the sly.

Now abstinance is admirable in both cases, but it is not a mortal sin not to do so, and it’s clear the in the couple’s case the principle of double effect holds, as they are not doing anything purposeful to thwart “openess to life”.

As has been posted:

15. On the other hand, the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there from—provided such impediment is not directly intended for any motive whatsoever.
 
None of that contradict’s Fr. Serpa’s answer.

Here is the problem. When a person is being treated for a medical problem there may be all types of side effects including a suppression of fertility. If one willed that it would be a sin. If one supressed fertility to achieve a so-called greater good that would be a sin.

None of that applies to the case we are talking about here. No one intends to alter ferility. No one uses suppression of fertility as a means to an end. What we have is medical therapy that has a side effect.
I guess I disagree w/ Fr. Serpa’s answer. I also disagree that taking ABC - even for non-BC reasons - during marriage and being sexually active is ok. IMO the sin may be less than deliberately using ABC to prevent pregnancy during marriage, but its still wrong b/c it kills innocent life. In my heart I can’t separate or forget the the primary medical purpose/intent/action of ABC is to prevent conception - regardless of the disease its treating. Fertility is meant to be suppressed w/ ABC. That’s the purpose of it - regardless of the disease its treating.

I don’t mean to be uncharitable by any means. I realize that its a hard decision to make and opinions vary. I just can’t wrap my mind/heart around acceptance of ABC for anything w/n marriage complete w/ sexual activity. I’ve had 4 miscarriages that were very hard on me physically as well as emotionally. I suffer from guilt and continually question myself about what I did that caused my miscarriages. I do this even after speaking to my doctors (one is regular, the other is NFP-only NaPro trained), my priest, other theologians, my family, etc. It haunts me that perhaps there is something I could have done better (for several of the pregnancies I was taking medication that was supposed to prevent miscarriage). I don’t think I’d be able to live with myself if I knew something I was taking was going to make me miscarry/abort. As it is my body betrays me & my unborn children w/ frightening regularity and leads me to think that perhaps I should not attempt any more. However, I don’t have a good enough moral reason to get a hysterectomy (would completely solve my problems - including endometriosis, fibriods, adhesions, etc) b/c its not medically necessary.

Good luck to you and I wish you & yours all the best.
 
Now to the point of the discussion, the intent and motive, as you pointed out, are crucial to one’s culpability of mortal sin. The man who’s wife is secretly contracepting is participating in an act of contraceptive sexual union, no? The only thing that “saves” him from it being a mortal act is that he is participating in it without the intent or the motive to prevent pregnancy. He is deliberately participating in that act, however.

The couple who are engaged in marital union without the intent or motive to prevent pregnancy also are participating in a deliberate act, one of marital intercourse. So the same thing that “saves” the man (who’s wife is secretely contracepting) doesn’t apply to the could who’s intent is to be open to life, despite the fact that medication necessary to maintain their (one of them, at least) health prevents conception?
I’ll try to be more specific. You can go to my previous post for the definitions of “deliberate” and “intent.” But one has to be careful with these theological terms and to what “intent” is applied. It is not just “intent” that saves the man from participating in his wife’s sneaky contraception. It’s the fact that he is not deliberately consenting to the use of contraception with his will because he does not know of it. Intent is the movement of the will towards the end, or goal, so if he doesn’t know his wife is contracepting, he cannot have the intent to contracept, nor the will to contracept. But when you say he is “deliberately participating in the act” you are referring to the act of conjugal relations (sex), not to the act of contracepting. This is where the confusion arises. These are different acts, and they must be separated. They are two different acts with different intents.

The act of having conjugal relations was willful and a deliberate act. The act of contracepting was deliberate on the part of the wife because she intended it and willed it, but not on the part of the unknowing husband. The husband did not (could not) deliberately contracept by participating in contraception. However, his intent in the conjugal act (a separate act) is unknown. Perhaps they are married, living comfortably, and can afford to have another child. Perhaps the husband is selfish and self-gratifying and only having sex during infertile periods. Even though he does not act deliberately with regard to the wife’s contraception, he may have a separate contraceptive intent with regard to his sex life and this would render his act sinful, too. So, the husband may, or may not, be engaging in contraception (through his intent), separate from the wife’s actual contraception. Intent is subjective and is connected with, but sometimes separate, from a deliberate action which is freely willed. And there are two different acts, here.

The principle of the double effect applies, but not to the sexual act. This is the entire point. HV15 does not say anything about having sexual relations. It only says something about therapeutic means which may impair procreation. Moreover, it is no surprise. If this paragraph were not in HV, would it be permissible to use contraception to cure a person, even if made the person sterile? Of course. It’s the Natural Law, that you can try to heal a person, even if unintended (lesser) effects occur. It’s not true because the Pope wrote it; the Pope wrote it because it’s true. So, if you’re waiting for an explicit papal pronouncement about whether one can have sex while one is temporarily sterilized, then you’re placing quite a burden on the papacy. Draw your own conclusions. If you understand the principles of HV, the Natural Law, and moral theology, the conclusion is compelled.

The double effect means that there is a good effect, and a bad effect, but on balance, the good outweighs the bad. So, a terminally ill cancer patient needs morphine to stop the pain, but the morphine will hasten death. Well, death will occur anyway, so the good effect of using the morphine (pain relief) outweighs the bad effect of a hastened death. If the person were NOT terminally ill, and the pain relief caused death, this would be murder.

To apply it to the present case, if an operation is necessary to remove a cancerous uterus, that good effect would outweigh the fact that reproduction will be permanently impaired (bad effect). This has NO application to whether or not the couple may then engage in the conjugal act. The double effect concerns the cure (good) and the after effects (bad).

So, the “intent” of the “contraception” is not at issue. The therapeutic means is intended to cure, and its good effects outweigh the bad. But this does not concern the “intent” of the conjugal act. The fact remains that the person is sterile. Can she have sex?

Drawing upon the principles of the RCC, if the sterility is permanent then, according to the Natural Law, the person will never be able to conceive. So, she is no different position than a post-menopausal woman. She may have sexual relations.

If the sterility is temporary, then it is being temporarily “masked” by the medication. This means that a woman capable of conception, but for the therapeutic means, is rendered temporarily sterile. This is contraception. Suppose the woman is on the pill (to cure a cyst, for instance). She has contracepted. The fact that she does not intend contraception, and that the medication was not intended to contracept, does not exempt her. She has rendered her body temporarily sterile, and sins if she has conjugal relations. The double effect permits the treatment, but does not permit sexual relations. This is entirely consistent with the Natural Law, HV, and the fact that contraception is “intrinsically evil.” It’s not evil by “intent” (though that could make it evil, too). It’s evil by act - same as adultery, stealing, masturbation, etc.
 
Biology Brain has a different, and perhaps better, point. Suppose you were to engage in a medical treatment that required you to engage in dangerous activity, such that your 10 year old son might die. Would anyone do that? Now, breakthrough ovulation is always possible when one is on ABC. If you engage in sexual activity, you take the risk that your child in utero will die. Yet you wouldn’t do the same with your 10 year old. All life is sacred.

It’s no coincidence that the teaching on contraception AND the teaching on abortion both dictate that a woman who is contracepting (regardless of her intent) should not have sex. That’s why HV 14 explicitly states that good “intent” cannot save an otherwise evil act, like contracepted sex.
 
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