Can a morality expert / scholar help me, please?

[Ziggamafu]

After doing a lot of my own research it seems to me that public reparation - and seeking reconciliation with anyone offended or harmed by one’s mortal sin(s) - is a grave obligation, even if not explicitly assigned as a penance by one’s priest. For instance, it would be a mortal sin to not pay back money that was stolen from someone, even if one’s priest did not require it for penance. Or again, it would be mortal sin not to seek reconciliation and forgiveness from someone whose good name one has slandered. **“Secret” reparation & restitution seem to only be allowed if public forms would be *absolutely *and literally impossible.

Here are the ways in which this screws me:

1. As a teenager, I shoplifted a key chain from a store I remember. Must I approach the store manager and ask him what restitution he demands?
2. Also as a teenager, I stole several text books (although I can’t be sure I remember the exact number) from my high school. Must I approach my old principle (whom I assume still works there), tell him of my evil deeds, and ask what restitution he demands?
3. Also as a teenager, I would make “works” bombs for fun (using toilet cleaning chemicals), which is a felony. Must I turn myself in for prosecution?
4. Finally (and also as a teenager), I downloaded a TON of software, games, movies, music, etc., from file-sharing services. Must I turn myself in to the proper authorities and make a public appeal for what restitution must be served as a matter of simple justice?

…and must I refrain from communion until all of this restitution is met? This all happened 7-9 years ago (I only became Catholic a couple years ago) and all of the priests whose advice I’ve sought have (more or less) seemed to belittle my concerns. There are some passages in the CCC that make me wonder if every time I receive communion - even though I’ve gone to Confession and done my penance - I’m offending the Lord by already being in a state of mortal sin for not having made restitution. I lost the key chain years ago. I can’t remember how many books I stole (but I think maybe seven) and I certainly don’t know how much they cost.

**Is there any way I may know that I am in a state of grace???

What do you think?

 

[buffalo]

Make restitution as you are sincerely able. If circumstances do not allow restitution, then give to charity.

 

[Ziggamafu]

See, the words “sincerely” and “circumstances” are vague, to me…I don’t want to risk my soul on an assumption, I guess.

 

[buffalo]

See, the words “sincerely” and “circumstances” are vague, to me…I don’t want to risk my soul on an assumption, I guess.

Look at the definition of mortal sin and the requirements.

Sincerely - best efforts with a properly formed conscience

Circumstances - say the person is deceased you are trying to make restitution to, or they moved away, or the store is ourt of business.

 

[Contarini]

After doing a lot of my own research it seems to me that public reparation - and seeking reconciliation with anyone offended or harmed by one’s mortal sin(s) - is a grave obligation, even if not explicitly assigned as a penance by one’s priest. For instance, it would be a mortal sin to not pay back money that was stolen from someone, even if one’s priest did not require it for penance. Or again, it would be mortal sin not to seek reconciliation and forgiveness from someone whose good name one has slandered. **“Secret” reparation & restitution seem to only be allowed if public forms would be *absolutely ***and *literally *impossible.

Here are the ways in which this screws me:

1. As a teenager, I shoplifted a key chain from a store I remember. Must I approach the store manager and ask him what restitution he demands?
2. Also as a teenager, I stole several text books (although I can’t be sure I remember the exact number) from my high school. Must I approach my old principle (whom I assume still works there), tell him of my evil deeds, and ask what restitution he demands?
3. Also as a teenager, I would make “works” bombs for fun (using toilet cleaning chemicals), which is a felony. Must I turn myself in for prosecution?
4. Finally (and also as a teenager), I downloaded a TON of software, games, movies, music, etc., from file-sharing services. Must I turn myself in to the proper authorities and make a public appeal for what restitution must be served as a matter of simple justice?

…and must I refrain from communion until all of this restitution is met? This all happened 7-9 years ago (I only became Catholic a couple years ago) and all of the priests whose advice I’ve sought have (more or less) seemed to belittle my concerns. There are some passages in the CCC that make me wonder if every time I receive communion - even though I’ve gone to Confession and done my penance - I’m offending the Lord by already being in a state of mortal sin for not having made restitution. I lost the key chain years ago. I can’t remember how many books I stole (but I think maybe seven) and I certainly don’t know how much they cost.

**Is there any way I may *know ***that I am in a state of grace???

What do you think?

I’m not a Catholic, so my opinion may not count. But the first phrase of your post stuck out to me. Is “your own research” really supposed to be the basis for an important decision like this? Shouldn’t you give your priest the benefit of the doubt? Or if you doubt the wisdom of your normal confessor, why not seek out a wise and holy priest and confide in him? It seems to me that if you know specific people who have been harmed by your sinful actions then you are obligated to make restitution. But if you have simply done a lot of illegal stuff, you should certainly repent and not do so any more, but I don’t think you are obligated to turn yourself in for prosecution. That at least is my understanding. I could be wrong, but I think the traditional Catholic view is that a criminal is not bound to hand himself over to the authorities but is bound not to resist arrest. You should try to make up to the people you have wronged insofar as you can do so, but I don’t think you need to set out to punish yourself when you have sincerely repented and been absolved and the sins in question lie some distance in the past (if you had committed some particularly grave act such as harming or killing another person, then it would IMHO be a very different story).

But don’t take my word for it. You really need to find a good spiritual advisor–NOT on the Internet!

Edwin

 

[Reepicheep]

Ziggamafu: -
Go ask your priest.

In the Sacrament of Reconciliation, the priest asks *in Persona Christi *- he is Christ to us.

[SIGN]Put Your Trust in Him. [/SIGN]

 

[Matt_Collins]

After doing a lot of my own research it seems to me that public reparation - and seeking reconciliation with anyone offended or harmed by one’s mortal sin(s) - is a grave obligation, even if not explicitly assigned as a penance by one’s priest.

It is a grave obligation only if it was a grave (i.e., mortal) sin.

1. As a teenager, I shoplifted a key chain from a store I remember. Must I approach the store manager and ask him what restitution he demands?

This does not appear to meet the first condition for a mortal sin, grave matter, unless the keychain was worth a lot of money. If it was an ordinary keychain, worth just a few dollars, then this has traditionally NOT been considered grave matter by moral theologians.

1. Also as a teenager, I stole several text books (although I can’t be sure I remember the exact number) from my high school.

Also does not seem to be grave matter, IMHO, but could be, depending on the value of the books.

1. Also as a teenager, I would make “works” bombs for fun (using toilet cleaning chemicals), which is a felony. Must I turn myself in for prosecution?

No. This would be unreasonable, unless someone was seriously hurt by your actions, or someone else was convicted in your place. Of course, this situation does involve the destruction of someone else’s property, so if you are confident that you would not be turned in to the police, it might be a good gesture. You could do it anonymously, too.

1. Finally (and also as a teenager), I downloaded a TON of software, games, movies, music, etc., from file-sharing services.

Again, given the miniscule harm caused to the copyright owners, this does not appear to be grave matter.

…and must I refrain from communion until all of this restitution is met?

No.

Don’t forget that the real person you offended by your actions is Jesus Christ. He’s the one whose forgiveness you have the obligation to seek the most.

research it seems to me that public reparation - and seeking reconciliation with anyone offended or harmed by one’s mortal sin(s) - is a grave obligation, even if not explicitly assigned as a penance by one’s priest.It is a grave obligation only if it was a grave (i.e., mortal) sin.

1. As a teenager, I shoplifted a key chain from a store I remember. Must I approach the store manager and ask him what restitution he demands?

This does not appear to meet the first condition for a mortal sin, grave matter, unless the keychain was worth a lot of money. If it was an ordinary keychain, worth just a few dollars, then this has traditionally NOT been considered grave matter by moral theologians.

1. Also as a teenager, I stole several text books (although I can’t be sure I remember the exact number) from my high school.

Also does not seem to be grave matter, IMHO, but could be, depending on the value of the books.

1. Also as a teenager, I would make “works” bombs for fun (using toilet cleaning chemicals), which is a felony. Must I turn myself in for prosecution?

No. This would be unreasonable, unless someone was seriously hurt by your actions, or someone else was convicted in your place. Of course, this situation does involve the destruction of someone else’s property, so if you are confident that you would not be turned in to the police, it might be a good gesture. You could do it anonymously, too.

1. Finally (and also as a teenager), I downloaded a TON of software, games, movies, music, etc., from file-sharing services.

Again, given the miniscule harm caused to the copyright owners, this does not appear to be grave matter.

**Is there any way I may *know ***that I am in a state of grace???

Yes. If you’ve gone to confession, confessed your mortal sins as you remembered them AT THE TIME OF CONFESSION, been sincerely sorry with the intention to avoid those sins and all other mortal sins, and received absolution, then you are, by definition, in a state of grace.

God is not up there trying to find reasons to send you to hell. Rather, he’s trying to find reasons to save you. It is you who have not forgiven yourself. If after making a good confession, which it appears you have done, your past is causing you such worry, you can be sure that the worry is not coming from God. It is the devil who wants you doubt God’s forgiveness.

God hasn’t forgiven you because you are good and worthy of his forgiveness. He has forgiven you because HE is good, despite the fact that you’re not worthy of it.

What do you think?

That’s what I think!

 

[baltobetsy]

I think that you have a right to your good name, which would be compromised by public restitution.

A good, holy and tough priest I know once told me that a person could send money anonymously to a company marked “conscience money,” and they would know what to do with it. This would satisfy the obligation of restitution without destroying your good name in the process.

And I second everything Matt Collins says.

Betsy

 

[Matt_Collins]

Sorry about the repetition in my previous post. I don’t know how that happened…

 

[Ziggamafu]

I think that you have a right to your good name, which would be compromised by public restitution.

A good, holy and tough priest I know once told me that a person could send money anonymously to a company marked “conscience money,” and they would know what to do with it. This would satisfy the obligation of restitution without destroying your good name in the process.

And I second everything Matt Collins says.

Betsy

Hmm…do you have an authoritative source from Church documentation about this?

 

[rwoehmke]

Ziggamafu, you do not, I repeat do not want to go down this path. You have made the best confession you could make about these things. Your sins are forgiven, but you can’t accept how easy the mercy of Jesus is. If you feel that you must make restitution don’t be talking to us. Our credentials to advise you from afar are not very good even if we were experts and had documents. You need to speak to a priest in the confessional about this scruple and ask him how to deal with it. How can you make restitution? Is it required? He represents Jesus. Trust his advice like you would trust Jesus. The alternate to this path is to eventually reap the whirlwind of scruples and lifelong uncertainty. At age 20 something I was in your shoes. The sins were different, but the life position was very similar. You have to learn to trust in Gods mercy and providence. I will pray for you. I used to live not far from Detroit some 50 years ago.

 

[Ziggamafu]

Ziggamafu, you do not, I repeat do not want to go down this path. You have made the best confession you could make about these things. Your sins are forgiven, but you can’t accept how easy the mercy of Jesus is. If you feel that you must make restitution don’t be talking to us. Our credentials to advise you from afar are not very good even if we were experts and had documents. You need to speak to a priest in the confessional about this scruple and ask him how to deal with it. How can you make restitution? Is it required? He represents Jesus. Trust his advice like you would trust Jesus. The alternate to this path is to eventually reap the whirlwind of scruples and lifelong uncertainty. At age 20 something I was in your shoes. The sins were different, but the life position was very similar. You have to learn to trust in Gods mercy and providence. I will pray for you. I used to live not far from Detroit some 50 years ago.

Thanks. I’ll try.

 

[baltobetsy]

Hmm…do you have an authoritative source from Church documentation about this?

CCC, number 2479, says:

Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one’s neighbor. Honor is the social witness given to human dignity, and everyone enjoys a natural right to the honor of his name and reputation and to respect. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity.

(Italics in original; bold type mine)
Even though it is not spelled out in the CCC, you can see how you could, by making public restitution, destroy the honor of your own name. It is not reasonable to require that of a penitent.

Just thinking logically here, the person who was injured by your actions (stealing, vandalism, or whatever) has a right to be made whole again, but no right to see your reputation destroyed, or even to know who sinned against him, as long as his property is restored. This is one of the reasons for the seal of confession.

And this was excellent advice: You need to speak to a priest in the confessional about this scruple and ask him how to deal with it. How can you make restitution? Is it required? He represents Jesus. Trust his advice like you would trust Jesus.

Betsy