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LovelyLadybug
Guest
I know those babies never get a chance to be baptized or a chance to pray because they die before they are born. But this isn’t their fault. Can they still go to heaven? Any thoughts on this? Thanks!!! 
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One certainly hopes so.
However, prior to recent years, Catholics commonly believed — and this was never a formal teaching of the Church — that babies who died without baptism were unable to enter heaven, and instead went to a place called limbo, where they knew no suffering, experienced natural happiness for eternity, but were nonetheless deprived of the beatific vision (a fact of which they were unaware). Some found this unacceptable, so the Church quit giving this idea much credence.
I’m not crazy about it myself. We had at least one miscarriage, and I attempted baptism even though there was nothing clearly “there” to baptize — it happened just a few weeks into the pregnancy. If our child had an immortal soul, and if that child can never see the beatific vision due to not being baptized, that will be very unfortunate, but I would not be hurt or angry at God over it — it would simply be the reality of the matter, and that would be that. Limbo can’t just “not exist” because people don’t like the idea, or because it runs counter to 21st-century Western sensibilities.
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otjm
Guest
God binds humans; but God is not bound by the laws with which he binds humans.
Which is another way of saying that if God so chooses, certainly. Some have proposed that their deaths are a form of martyrdom, so a baptism of blood; but there is certainly no more to that than speculation.
Another proposal is that the babies are given some form of opportunity to “choose God” as opposed to choosing against God. That too is speculation.
Ultimately, short of some form of revelation, we don’t know, but certainly can hope. God is a God of mercy, and most certainly the children have not done anything to condemn themselves. Mt. 19-14 certainly seems to give hope.
Which is another way of saying that if God so chooses, certainly. Some have proposed that their deaths are a form of martyrdom, so a baptism of blood; but there is certainly no more to that than speculation.
Another proposal is that the babies are given some form of opportunity to “choose God” as opposed to choosing against God. That too is speculation.
Ultimately, short of some form of revelation, we don’t know, but certainly can hope. God is a God of mercy, and most certainly the children have not done anything to condemn themselves. Mt. 19-14 certainly seems to give hope.
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Todd_Easton
Guest
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says:
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TheMortenBay
Guest
I think the honest, Catholic answer is we can’t know for sure, but it’s possible. There’s no dogma concerning the unborn.
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JanR
Guest
Attending Catechism classes in the 1950s and early 60s, they pushed the concept of Limbo for unbaptized babies, and I was one of those who could never accept that. No loving God would ever punish a little baby who died before he or she could be baptized.
Truth is, we don’t know. But I can’t imagine innocent little babies going anywhere but heaven.
I think the current teaching is that we leave that up to the mercy and love of God.
Still, we don’t really know. We just have to trust Him.
Truth is, we don’t know. But I can’t imagine innocent little babies going anywhere but heaven.
I think the current teaching is that we leave that up to the mercy and love of God.
Still, we don’t really know. We just have to trust Him.
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LovelyLadybug
Guest
This makes sense, thanks.
It would be so sad for those babies to not go to heaven. It isn’t their fault they weren’t baptized or never got to pray. Nevertheless, it is very sad that those babies die in the womb. We must pray that they go to heaven & for an end to abortion.
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mdgspencer
Guest
The Church has not spoken of this, so Catholics are free to think whatever they will. Whether they did or did not go to heaven is not a matter of faith.
In this regards, the Church has since ancient times had a feast of the Holy Innocents.These are the children two years and under that Herod had killed, hoping to kill Jesus. They are seen as holy and martyrs.
In this regards, the Church has since ancient times had a feast of the Holy Innocents.These are the children two years and under that Herod had killed, hoping to kill Jesus. They are seen as holy and martyrs.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
We do not know if the most newly ensouled person prays. Prayer is more that saying the Our Father.
Children are conceived with the stain of original sin. The Church teaches us the normative means to remove original sin is valid baptism.
Outside of that, we trust God. I had a baby die before birth. No even attempt at baptism, I was not Catholic so it would not have crossed my mind.
After years of prayer and study, I am at peace knowing that person, my child, is enfolded in God’s mercy. If that means their soul does not have the beatific vision, that is the best. If they are in heaven, that is best. If they are in hell, that is still best because God is far more compassionate than I can ever be. I trust Him.
Children are conceived with the stain of original sin. The Church teaches us the normative means to remove original sin is valid baptism.
Outside of that, we trust God. I had a baby die before birth. No even attempt at baptism, I was not Catholic so it would not have crossed my mind.
After years of prayer and study, I am at peace knowing that person, my child, is enfolded in God’s mercy. If that means their soul does not have the beatific vision, that is the best. If they are in heaven, that is best. If they are in hell, that is still best because God is far more compassionate than I can ever be. I trust Him.
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TK421
Guest
A person who cooperates with God’s grace will be saved. God wants everybody to be saved.
This is a beautiful explanation.
I would just add a nuance to what you explained. One explanation of limbo, in times past, was that it was a part of hell, but the farthest outskirts of it, far removed from anything punitive or painful, hence the name, which comes from the Latin limbus — “the limbs of hell”. Think of your fingertips and their relationship to the rest of the body. In extreme cold weather, your fingertips can freeze even when your body core retains normal temperature.
Some would say that the positive intent of the parents to have that child baptized as soon as possible after their birth would suffice — it is nobody’s fault that the child died before that could happen. Some, if I am understanding correctly, would say that all children are saved if they die before the age of reason (ca. age 7 in Catholic theology, ca. age 12 in evangelical theology, what they call “the age of accountability”). Logically, this would have to extend to everyone who, sadly, never acquires reason or accountability — the severely mentally disabled or someone who is, God forbid, a “human vegetable” for life. I certainly hope Almighty God would be this merciful, but I cannot prove that.
I don’t know if anyone else has noticed this, but the modern world tends to disbelieve, reject, or discount anything that is not pleasant to contemplate, and to be utterly tolerant of whatever beliefs anyone else might have or wish to be true. It is not popular these days to embrace a truth outside of oneself that might go against what works to the pleasure or advantage of oneself. Catholics who accept traditional moral and sacramental theology, and evangelicals who divide mankind into the “saved” and the “lost” and see only one path to being “saved”, would be exceptions to this.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
My thought, if all who die before the age of reason are saved, why would we baptize infants? The Protestants have it right, at least those who do not baptize before the age of reason .
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Gripper
Guest
I hope so. Maybe they go to a waiting room like the just did before Jesus died? Maybe it depends on whether their parents would have baptised them or not? Maybe God gives them a test a little bit like the angels had?
I think the next person who has a Marian apparition should ask.
I think the next person who has a Marian apparition should ask.
Some speculate this, and if this is true, it is hard to think that any of them would choose against God — they have never had any temptation, life experience or disordered appetites, concupiscence, or siren call from the secular world, to choose otherwise. Kind of like a blank slate on which, all of a sudden, appears a loving and almost irresistible invitation to choose God and salvation. What could be easier?
Again, all sheer speculation.
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MarkRome
Guest
In the book Heaven is For Real, the little boy had a near death experience and saw his miscarried sister in heaven. He was never told about her by his parents.
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Allegra
Guest
I guess we can’t really know for sure until we are there. I only observe that we believe in a just God and we have a feast day of the Holy Innocents due to their martyrdom. If being a victim of abortion isn’t martyrdom, I don’t know what is.
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Bruce_Killian
Guest
Under the old covenant circumcision was equivalent to baptism
Colossians 2:11-13 RSV In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; 12 and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
David’s first son by Bathsheba died at 7 days old so before circumcision on the 8th day. David said
2 Samuel 12:18, 23 RSV - 18 On the seventh day the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead; for they said, “Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spoke to him, and he did not listen to us; how then can we say to him the child is dead? He may do himself some harm.” … 23 But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me."
Ultimately there is only heaven and hell.
David did not go to hell so David an his uncircumcised son went to heaven.
Grace and peace, Bruce
Colossians 2:11-13 RSV In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; 12 and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
David’s first son by Bathsheba died at 7 days old so before circumcision on the 8th day. David said
2 Samuel 12:18, 23 RSV - 18 On the seventh day the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead; for they said, “Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spoke to him, and he did not listen to us; how then can we say to him the child is dead? He may do himself some harm.” … 23 But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me."
Ultimately there is only heaven and hell.
David did not go to hell so David an his uncircumcised son went to heaven.
Grace and peace, Bruce
Tis_Bearself
Patron
- Because it provides special grace to the child as he or she grows.
- Because it makes the child a member of our Church that we as Catholic parents have promised to raise him in.
- Because we do not know if we, the parents, will live to see tomorow and it is best to do what the Church encourages for our babies since when we are gone, who knows if anyone else will?
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otjm
Guest
I would differentiate “theology” from theological constructs. that, and a whole lot of Catholics (pre and post Vatican 2) have had a somewhat minimal grasp on theology, so we have and have had Catholics of good and earnest faith who are less than particularly knowledgeable. And I will let God sort that all out.
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