Can an organization be one with several leaders?

[Rawb]

Roman Catholicism is actually equally rich with a lot of tradition both Liturgical and extraliturgical. What I find is that here in North America, it tends to be bland. You should experience Roman Catholicism in the Philippines

I didn’t say you didn’t. I was pointing out the ridiculousness of the poster’s assertion that we were “jealous” of y’all’s “rich liturgical heritage”. I was pointing out we have our own, and don’t sit quietly grumbling in a corner, gnashing our teeth about how oh-so-wonderful it would be if we were you.

I’m pretty sure he was talking about you guys

Isn’t this the pope who called your eastern catholics “Orthodox in Communion with Rome”? I’m still not sure he was talking about us, but at any rate he should’ve been talking about you; you’re the ones in communion with each other. I think y’all mean it to be a positive thing, but it doesn’t come across that way from our perspective.

 

[CopticChristian]

I can assure you, no Orthodox person I have ever spoken to is at all jealous of your Novus Ordo, or the fact that you have activity 7 Days a week. Heck, we have Vespers, Matins, other Hours Prayers from the Horologion, Liturgy, and during feast days we still do the old blessings of fruit, of the waters, and the processions. I can’t think of anything I’m jealous of Romans having.

Your pope was referring to your Eastern Catholics as your other lung - not the Orthodox Church. We are not part of the same church.

Wow. That makes it difficult to consider what is happening in Rome with the Orthodox dialogue.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I didn’t say you didn’t. I was pointing out the ridiculousness of the poster’s assertion that we were “jealous” of y’all’s “rich liturgical heritage”. I was pointing out we have our own, and don’t sit quietly grumbling in a corner, gnashing our teeth about how oh-so-wonderful it would be if we were you.

I’m pretty sure there’s some sentiments in there that reflect that. Its human nature to want the things we do not have, but that doesn’t mean that what we want is always better.

Isn’t this the pope who called your eastern catholics “Orthodox in Communion with Rome”? I’m still not sure he was talking about us, but at any rate he should’ve been talking about you; you’re the ones in communion with each other. I think y’all mean it to be a positive thing, but it doesn’t come across that way from our perspective.

In Orientale Lumen, he was pretty clear when he was referring to the Orthodox Church, and where he was referring to Eastern Catholics. Also, I don’t think the two lungs started with Blessed Pope John Paul II.

Many Orthodox however praise Orientale Lumen. I’ve even seen a book in a Catholic bookstore written by an Orthodox priest about Orientale Lumen. It was the only thing Eastern in that bookstore. But the Orthodox priest had nothing but good things to say about it.

 

[Rawb]

I’m pretty sure there’s some sentiments in there that reflect that. Its human nature to want the things we do not have, but that doesn’t mean that what we want is always better.

I must be misunderstanding you. You’re not saying you can interpret my feelings better than I can are you? Feel free to PM me instead of posting here to prevent going off topic if you’d like.

In Orientale Lumen, he was pretty clear when he was referring to the Orthodox Church, and where he was referring to Eastern Catholics. Also, I don’t think the two lungs started with Blessed Pope John Paul II.

Many Orthodox however praise Orientale Lumen. I’ve even seen a book in a Catholic bookstore written by an Orthodox priest about Orientale Lumen. It was the only thing Eastern in that bookstore. But the Orthodox priest had nothing but good things to say about it.

Many supported the heretic Arius too (not calling anyone a heretic). If I told my priest we were “two lungs of the same church” with the Romans he would sit me down for a talk. If I said that to people at my parish they’d suggest I have a meeting with Father to discuss my…ideas.

If y’all want to use the two lung metaphor I’m not about to tell y’all what to do in their own church, but you should keep it in your own church. Imagine if an Anglican came up to you and said “We’re two halves of the same whole.” or even a Baptist. That’s our perspective. The Church is Catholic - it is Whole, Complete, and Full. Saying it is “one lung” is a horrible metaphor, from our perspective, because it doesn’t reflect the nature of The Church. This isn’t the foot telling the hand “I don’t need you”, it’s another body telling the body “You’re incomplete without me.” That is the Orthodox perspective on the metaphor.

I know it is said with the best intentions.

 

[Harpazo]

Wow. That makes it difficult to consider what is happening in Rome with the Orthodox dialogue.

What is happening with Orthodox dialog?

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[ConstantineTG]

I must be misunderstanding you. You’re not saying you can interpret my feelings better than I can are you? Feel free to PM me instead of posting here to prevent going off topic if you’d like.

I’m not speaking for you. I’m saying there are others out there who may feel that way that you say you do not feel.

Many supported the heretic Arius too (not calling anyone a heretic). If I told my priest we were “two lungs of the same church” with the Romans he would sit me down for a talk. If I said that to people at my parish they’d suggest I have a meeting with Father to discuss my…ideas.

So just because you don’t agree with whats happening, you will compare it to Arianism. And when you agree, you’ll cite an example that shows a larger group of Orthodox agreeing to it. C’mon now. You can’t shoot down an idea with unfair analogies.

If y’all want to use the two lung metaphor I’m not about to tell y’all what to do in their own church, but you should keep it in your own church. Imagine if an Anglican came up to you and said “We’re two halves of the same whole.” or even a Baptist. That’s our perspective. The Church is Catholic - it is Whole, Complete, and Full. Saying it is “one lung” is a horrible metaphor, from our perspective, because it doesn’t reflect the nature of The Church. This isn’t the foot telling the hand “I don’t need you”, it’s another body telling the body “You’re incomplete without me.” That is the Orthodox perspective on the metaphor.

I know it is said with the best intentions.

Sad that you’d wish to reject the efforts of many Orthodox for reunification. Its not as if we’re the only side who’s trying to do something here. No offense, but I’m glad you’re not in charge.

To tell you the truth, in many RC-Orthodox debates here I don’t think twice about siding with the Orthodox. And recently I’ve been having thoughts that maybe I’m being called to Orthodoxy. But seeing attitudes like this, I now realize that its not where I want to be because I don’t want to be like that. And it does seem true that those who are converts and usually former Catholics are the more scathing anti-Catholics that the lifelong Orthodox. But I too will be a convert if I make that leap of faith. I don’t want to be like that. I don’t want to take the, “you’re heretics, we’re right all along, we don’t need you” kind of mentality.

 

[Rawb]

To tell you the truth, in many RC-Orthodox debates here I don’t think twice about siding with the Orthodox. And recently I’ve been having thoughts that maybe I’m being called to Orthodoxy. But seeing attitudes like this, I now realize that its not where I want to be because I don’t want to be like that. And it does seem true that those who are converts and usually former Catholics are the more scathing anti-Catholics that the lifelong Orthodox. But I too will be a convert if I make that leap of faith. I don’t want to be like that. I don’t want to take the, “you’re heretics, we’re right all along, we don’t need you” kind of mentality.

You want to know why former Romans are so bitter towards your church? If I tell a Roman catholic that I used to be Roman you know what I’m told? “You must not understand your former faith.” “Maybe you’re invincibly ignorant” The idea that someone could have legitimate disagreements with your teachings isn’t possible apparently. Instead we’re called stupid. That’s the only reason someone would leave. I still loved the Roman Catholic church when I (unwillingly at first) left. Roman Catholics themselves ‘fixed’ that pretty quickly, which of course, then allows the perpetuation of that whole “Have you ever noticed that former Catholics are so bitter and angry towards their former church?” thing.

So I’m done. This website is poison. If a non-Roman isn’t willing to roll over and accept every chop-job done on the Holy Councils or the non-historical “traditions” we’re told we’re bitter, stubborn, and proud. If you tell someone they’re bitter enough times, disregarding their own feelings, they become bitter. If someone here says something not dripping with fake enthusiasm for reunion, if someone dares to point out any real issues (that come up in the *real *world, that will *really *prevent reunion) they’re decried as pessimistic and anti-Catholic. How can I be anti-Catholic? I am Catholic (not that we’re allowed to call ourselves such here, the definition of “catholic” for y’all is “in communion with one bishop”). I’m shaking the dust from my feet, I won’t be returning to this site; it’s a complete waste of time.