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PatienceAndLove
Guest
Also- Early Christians were accused by the Romans of being Cannibals: “This is My Body… this is My Blood… eat and drink” (paraphrased, of course)
Can any Protestants here prove the Early Church did not believe in the Real Presence of The Eucharist?
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jonfan
Guest
The doctrine of the Real Presence asserts that in the Holy Eucharist, Jesus is literally and wholly present—body and blood, soul and divinity—under the appearances of bread and wine.
catholic.com/library/Real_Presence.asp
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Let’s try to turn it around a bit for martin and the others,
Can any Protestants here prove the Early Church viewed the Eucharist as being symbolic only, a reenactment of a meal and nothing further?
Can any Protestants here prove the Early Church viewed the Eucharist as being symbolic only, a reenactment of a meal and nothing further?
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mozart-250
Guest
Nitpick time here:
Prove is the wrong verb here. One can “prove” mathematical equations. One can not “prove” theological assertions. (If we can not “prove” that God exists, how can we “prove” any theological assertion that assumes God exists).
The best you can do is “provide convincing evidence given certain theological assumptions” on a given theological proposition.
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jpaul
Guest
Peace and all-good!
The Apostolic Fathers believed in the Eucharist to be the true body, blood and divinity of Jesus Chirst.
True Protestants will never read Church history because reading it will open their eyes to the whole truth and make them Catholics.
Ave Maria!
jpaul
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O.S.Luke
Guest
Again, why would I want to?
As a United Methodist, I have no problem with the Early Church recognizing that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist.
See above. Church history and Patristics are required reading in seminary.
O+
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Sixtus
Guest
I agree. But it amazes me how much they react to prejudice borne out of ignorance and mis-information rather than checking out the facts for themselves.
On another thread, I have been PM’d by an Evangelical about the alleged ‘fabulous wealth’ of the Catholic Church. That really annoys me in the light of the truth that most Priests in UK live very austere lives due to funds being needed to pay for more urgent commitments.
Sorry to de-rail the thread but I have known of Priests to walk around in shoes with holes in the soles. Equally, Priests who repair their own cars as there is insufficient money to pay for a garage mechanic. Priests who use a bicycle to save spending much needed reserves on petrol.
That undauntable and formidable band of women [known simply as 'the Catholic Women] who devote their lives to coffee mornings, jumble sales etc etc to raise much needed funds.
In UK Church’s are selling whatever they can to raise funds to pay for much needed repairs. Most parishes are running on the brink of bankruptcy.
If this ‘fabulous wealth’ exists, I wish someone would tell us where it is
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Richard_Kastner
Guest
Try 1 Cor. 10:16,17
16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
Apparently Paul thinks the bread and wine are symbolic of our communion one with the other in the body of Christ.
Yours in Christ Richard
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Then why, Richard, does St. Paul also speak of receiving the communion of the Lord unworthily? How can one receive a mere ‘symbol’ unworthily?
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Richard_Kastner
Guest
Well I don’t know if I would refer to the elements of communion as “mere” symbols, both Paul and Christ seemed to take this memorial rite very seriously. I would assume what Paul is talking about is being in the state of unrepentant sin.
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Sixtus
Guest
St Paul goes further to suggest that ‘to eat and drink unworthily is to profane the body and blood of Christ’ 1Cor 11:27. Now that sounds pretty clear to me. It is difficult to see how it can be ambigous
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Richard_Kastner
Guest
I don’t find it at all ambiguous Paul tells us in (1 Cor.10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
that the cup and the bread of which we partake at communion is symbolic of our communion one with the other in the body of Christ.)
Jn.6 elaborates a little more:
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
This basically is a restatement of Jn.3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Yours in Christ Richard
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Nella
Guest
Ditto for me as an Anglican. What would be the motive??Jon,
Why would I want to?
Of course, as a Lutheran, I have no problem with the Early Church recognizing that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist.
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