Can Canons be wrong? Please?!

[tomch]

My wife and teenage children are staunch Baptists (often quite anti-Catholic), and as such, I worry about them, and pray a lot for them. I converted last year.

I used to really stress about the “No Salvation outside the Church” teaching until I heard it explained that by Christian Baptism, even Baptists are “inside” the Church, whether they know it or not. I felt relieved about this… until I read tonight from the 13th session of Trent (written in 1551). These Canons seem very pointed and UN-merciful. Back to worrying about my Baptist family…

CANON I.-If any one denieth, that, in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, are contained truly, really, and substantially, the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ; but saith that He is only therein as in a sign, or in figure, or virtue; let him be anathema.

CANON lI.-If any one saith, that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denieth that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood-the species Only of the bread and wine remaining-which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation; let him be anathema.

CANON VIII.-lf any one saith, that Christ, given in the Eucharist, is eaten spiritually only, and not also sacramentally and really; let him be anathema.

That’s pretty clear, eh?! Back to worrying about my wife and kids, since they do NOT believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. They strongly believe it is only a sign. Is there a “merciful way” to interpret these Canons? Please?!

I get the feeling that the Council of Trent would have disagreed with the merciful “Even Baptists are inside the Church through their Baptism” explanation. Seems like the more UN-merciful interpretation of “No Salvation outside the Church” fits pretty well with these Canons.

Any comments would be appreciated…

 

[palmas85]

My wife and teenage children are staunch Baptists (often quite anti-Catholic), and as such, I worry about them, and pray a lot for them. I converted last year.

I used to really stress about the “No Salvation outside the Church” teaching until I heard it explained that by Christian Baptism, even Baptists are “inside” the Church, whether they know it or not. I felt relieved about this… until I read tonight from the 13th session of Trent (written in 1551). These Canons seem very pointed and UN-merciful. Back to worrying about my Baptist family…

CANON I.-If any one denieth, that, in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, are contained truly, really, and substantially, the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ; but saith that He is only therein as in a sign, or in figure, or virtue; let him be anathema.

CANON lI.-If any one saith, that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denieth that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood-the species Only of the bread and wine remaining-which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation; let him be anathema.

CANON VIII.-lf any one saith, that Christ, given in the Eucharist, is eaten spiritually only, and not also sacramentally and really; let him be anathema.

That’s pretty clear, eh?! Back to worrying about my wife and kids, since they do NOT believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. They strongly believe it is only a sign. Is there a “merciful way” to interpret these Canons? Please?!

I get the feeling that the Council of Trent would have disagreed with the merciful “Even Baptists are inside the Church through their Baptism” explanation. Seems like the more UN-merciful interpretation of “No Salvation outside the Church” fits pretty well with these Canons.

Any comments would be appreciated…

What is un merciful about these canons? If people choose not to believe in the Catholic faith after being exposed to it then whatever happens to them it is certainly on them. You cannot be responsible for their disbelief.

You can only take the invincible ignorance argument, as many try to, only so far before you realize that it really doesn’t apply in most cases.

My advice, live the faith fully and completely in front of them. Expose them to it. Become educated in it and demonstrate to them exactly what the Church is. They will either accept it or reject it.

And that my friend is just the way it is.

 

[Harrison]

I agree with the above post. You should do all that you can to expose them to the faith and show them what Catholicism really is. Since you say they are very anti-Catholic, you could try to get their feelings on all of the issues and try to explain to them why they are incorrect or their ideas about Catholicism are out of this world. It may take a while to do, but hopefully they will be able to listen well and the Holy Spirit will help you through it.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

My wife and teenage children are staunch Baptists (often quite anti-Catholic), and as such, I worry about them, and pray a lot for them. I converted last year.

I used to really stress about the “No Salvation outside the Church” teaching until I heard it explained that by Christian Baptism, even Baptists are “inside” the Church, whether they know it or not. I felt relieved about this… until I read tonight from the 13th session of Trent (written in 1551). These Canons seem very pointed and UN-merciful. Back to worrying about my Baptist family…

CANON I.-If any one denieth, that, in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, are contained truly, really, and substantially, the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ; but saith that He is only therein as in a sign, or in figure, or virtue; let him be anathema.

CANON lI.-If any one saith, that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denieth that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood-the species Only of the bread and wine remaining-which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation; let him be anathema.

CANON VIII.-lf any one saith, that Christ, given in the Eucharist, is eaten spiritually only, and not also sacramentally and really; let him be anathema.

That’s pretty clear, eh?! Back to worrying about my wife and kids, since they do NOT believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. They strongly believe it is only a sign. Is there a “merciful way” to interpret these Canons? Please?!

I get the feeling that the Council of Trent would have disagreed with the merciful “Even Baptists are inside the Church through their Baptism” explanation. Seems like the more UN-merciful interpretation of “No Salvation outside the Church” fits pretty well with these Canons.

Any comments would be appreciated…

The Canons apply to Catholics.

Start with:

“CANON I.-If any Catholic denieth, that, in the sacrament…”

“CANON lI.-If any Catholic saith, that, in the sacred…”

 

[Usagi]

Also, “anathema” doesn’t mean “condemned to hell.” It’s a form of excommunication that does not even exist in the current Code of Canon Law.

So, there was a time when a Catholic proclaiming such things would have been excommunicated.

Since your family is already not Catholic, canon law does not apply to them. They can’t be excommunicated from a Church they’re already not in communion with.

You should, of course, continue to pray for your family, and show by your teaching and example that whatever misconceptions they might have about Catholics and Catholicism are incorrect.With God’s help, perhaps one day you will all be able to receive Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament together.

Usagi

 

[BennyBoy89]

tom, I will be praying for you. You’re a very brave man, and you seem to be genuinely concerned for your family.

Trust me, I know how rough those Baptists can be.