Can cruelty be right?

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souldiver

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For example, should we bring back the terrible torture and execution as punishment of the law? Like electric chair, guillotine or even crucifixion?

Why? These can bring justice against mass murderers, traitors, torturers, rapists. Therefore justice isn’t it? And it helps to scare potential criminals from doing crimes? Right?

Also to disrespectful kids, the can shamed hard don’t they? Is it alright?
 
If things like the guillotine and crucifixion failed to end crime in the past, what makes you think they would work now?
 
Probably it worked, just not in everyone. Also, it could serve justice.
 
Cruelty is not justice. Making punishment harsher is not likely to decrease crime; it’s been tried.
 
souldiver said:
For example, should we bring back the terrible torture and execution as punishment of the law? Like electric chair, guillotine or even crucifixion?

Why? These can bring justice against mass murderers, traitors, torturers, rapists. Therefore justice isn’t it? And it helps to scare potential criminals from doing crimes? Right?

Also to disrespectful kids, the can shamed hard don’t they? Is it alright?
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Why then have most western countries abolished the death penalty if, as you suggest, it is a deterrent?
 
The guillotine is no crueler than electrocution, gas or shooting, as done nowadays.

It just mars the appearance of the dead body.

That should not be the issue in punishment.

ICXC NIKA.
 
From the Catechism (CCC 2297):
Torture which uses physical or moral violence to extract confessions, punish the guilty, frighten opponents, or satisfy hatred is contrary to respect for the person and for human dignity.
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and
2298 In times past, cruel practices were commonly used by legitimate governments to maintain law and order, often without protest from the Pastors of the Church, who themselves adopted in their own tribunals the prescriptions of Roman law concerning torture. Regrettable as these facts are, the Church always taught the duty of clemency and mercy. She forbade clerics to shed blood. In recent times it has become evident that these cruel practices were neither necessary for public order, nor in conformity with the legitimate rights of the human person. On the contrary, these practices led to ones even more degrading. It is necessary to work for their abolition. We must pray for the victims and their tormentors.
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souldiver said:
For example, should we bring back the terrible torture and execution as punishment of the law? Like electric chair, guillotine or even crucifixion?

Why? These can bring justice against mass murderers, traitors, torturers, rapists. Therefore justice isn’t it? And it helps to scare potential criminals from doing crimes? Right?

Also to disrespectful kids, the can shamed hard don’t they? Is it alright?
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No.
 
“Justice is mine” says the Lord.

Or something like that.
God will get those who persist in evil, no worries.
The electric chair and the like, hanging, abortion, euthanasia, is above our pay grade.
 
souldiver said:
For example, should we bring back the terrible torture and execution as punishment of the law? Like electric chair, guillotine or even crucifixion?

Why? These can bring justice against mass murderers, traitors, torturers, rapists. Therefore justice isn’t it? And it helps to scare potential criminals from doing crimes? Right?

Also to disrespectful kids, the can shamed hard don’t they? Is it alright?
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Justice or revenge?

More likely revenge.
 
souldiver said:
For example, should we bring back the terrible torture and execution as punishment of the law? Like electric chair, guillotine or even crucifixion?

Why? These can bring justice against mass murderers, traitors, torturers, rapists. Therefore justice isn’t it? And it helps to scare potential criminals from doing crimes? Right?

Also to disrespectful kids, the can shamed hard don’t they? Is it alright?
Click to expand...
No, that would not be a good idea.

Inflicting cruelty on another human being is not really an act of justice, because it cannot possibly restore what has been destroyed by the criminal in question.

Punishment has, essentially, three functions: (1) the reform of the person who has committed the crime, (2) the protection of society from further damage and (3) repairing, insofar as it is possible, the damage caused by the crime.

Punishment does, of course, have a deterrent effect, but that effect must be subordinated to the common good and (to the degree that it does not conflict with the common good) the good of the criminal. (Part of the reason, after all, that we do not wish for persons to commit crimes is because the crime damages the perpetrators, in addition to the victims and to society as a whole.)

Inflicting a cruel punishment on a criminal would do nothing to protect society from that criminal—a sufficiently long jail sentence is enough for that purpose—and it would certainly not be a help to reforming the criminal. Still less would it repair what has been damaged by the crime.

Only in the most extreme of circumstances can a penalty of death be applied: when the system of prisons is unable to restrain a criminal from committing further crimes, which is not really an issue in developed countries. Torturing a person to death, however, would accomplish nothing.

Making the punishments more cruel would undoubtedly have something of a stronger deterrent effect; it can hardly help that. However, it would not stop crime from occurring, and it would do nothing to restore what the crime has destroyed. Just how much more deterrent such cruelties would be is hard to quantify.

Protecting the human dignity of the persons involved (even those who have committed crimes) is always a higher priority than a possible, but nebulous, deterrent effect.
 
My understanding is that a few of these methods are arguably less cruel or inhumane than the way executions are carried out today (there have been lots of problems with lethal injections, for instance). Sometimes what makes them more palatable is that we don’t actually see the suffering, or because there is a team of executioners that share the duty and/or are not sure which one of them actually caused the death of the criminal.

It is my opinion that in most developed countries the use of the death penalty ceases to serve any useful purpose, and its application is fraught with error and corruption in the justice system. A person who has been wrongfully imprisoned can be let go, but that doesn’t apply to the wrongfully executed.
 
What if you got raped by an ugly perverted man, would still dislike cruel punishment? Will you fully forgive the offender despite that?
 
souldiver said:
What if you got raped by an ugly perverted man, would still dislike cruel punishment? Will you fully forgive the offender despite that?
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Yes.
Revenge won’t make anyone forget the incident, nor will they be gratified, satisfied or justified.
St. John Paul II forgave his would-be assassin.
 
souldiver said:
What if you got raped by an ugly perverted man, would still dislike cruel punishment? Will you fully forgive the offender despite that?
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By definition, any rapist is an ugly, perverted person.

But such men also are loved by God, or, since you are a non-believer, fellow members of the human race and with their own dignity.

Would I initially want vengeance? Yes. Then again, I want vengeance on the person who cuts me off in traffic sometimes. It’s not a reasonable response, and given time (usually pretty short in that instance) I can forgive the person.

It may take a lot longer for me to forgive someone who would commit such an atrocity against me, but I would still try. I do have experience with nursing grudges and hatred. It eats you up inside. Forgiveness is freeing.

(But, I could also forgive a person and still think the best place for them is prison, for the hopes of their rehabilitation and conversion, and to protect other members of the public from them.)
 
souldiver said:
What if you got raped by an ugly perverted man, would still dislike cruel punishment? Will you fully forgive the offender despite that?
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I don’t know how I personally I would hold up in a situation like that. I certainly hope I would be able to forgive him. Regardless, however, it would still not make it right to torture the man.

Naturally, such a person would still have to be punished (with prison time).
 
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