Can Fallen Angels Seek Forgiveness?

[CoolFinalFan]

good post here… answered some questions regarding the subject spoken about here. Some good questions & answers!!

 

[tonyrey]

It’s not God not being nice…it’s that after death we enter eternity, which is not an endless time, but something outside of time…there is literally “no more time” to repent

Fr. Angelo Bellon, O.P., once explained it this way (my translation from Italian):

I wish to disagree because the capacity for love presupposes the power to choose to love.
By creating us in His image and likeness God shares His power with us. There is no reason why we should lose our freedom when we die. If we did we would lose the most precious gift we possess…

 

[JimG]

Any one who asks for forgiveness could be forgiven. But fallen angels do not change their minds. When they choose, they choose with finality.

The only reason that human beings can repent is because we live in a continuum of time. We can change our minds because we alway have new (name removed by moderator)ut coming in to our minds from the day we are conceived until the day we die. At any point in this continuum of time, we may will something different than we did before.

Once we die, the (name removed by moderator)ut is complete. There is nothing further that would influence us. There is no more time, and no more time to change our minds. Our will is set, either for or against God.

Angels are not like us. They do not exist in a continuum of time. When making a decision, they have full and complete knowledge of the decision and its consequences immediately. They choose once and once only.

 

[CoolFinalFan]

Any one who asks for forgiveness could be forgiven. But fallen angels do not change their minds. When they choose, they choose with finality.

The only reason that human beings can repent is because we live in a continuum of time. We can change our minds because we alway have new (name removed by moderator)ut coming in to our minds from the day we are conceived until the day we die. At any point in this continuum of time, we may will something different than we did before.

Once we die, the (name removed by moderator)ut is complete. There is nothing further that would influence us. There is no more time, and no more time to change our minds. Our will is set, either for or against God.

Angels are not like us. They do not exist in a continuum of time. When making a decision, they have full and complete knowledge of the decision and its consequences immediately. They choose once and once only.

Well said Jim!!

 

[shem97225]

good post here… answered some questions regarding the subject spoken about here. Some good questions & answers!!

Do you know any about this book?
Malleus Maleficarum

 

[CoolFinalFan]

are you speaking of this? > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum

and > malleusmaleficarum.org/
Full text of the 1928 English translation by Montague Summers. His 1948 introduction is also included

 

[Pitcharan]

This is going to seem like a mighty odd theological question, but bear with me: can fallen angels–demons, or evil spirits–seek forgiveness? In other words, could one of these beings seek to reconcile with God through Jesus?

I ask because I was watching a very scary supernatural movie last night. I realize that Hollywood spirits are different than real ones, but I had the thought that the dark, malevolent entity was also created by God, and that God could(?) forgive it if it asked. In other words, I found myself pitying evil, and wondering if even the devil and his minions could seek to reconcile with God.

Is that totally crazy?

I have an indirect answer. The only reason why we humans qualify for forgiveness is because we were deceived (tricked) into sinning. No one either tempted or tricked the fallen angels. They were fleshless spirits knowing clearly and chose their actions by free will sans any influence or coercion. This being the case, where is the scope for forgiveness for them?

 

[fred_conty]

This is going to seem like a mighty odd theological question, but bear with me: can fallen angels–demons, or evil spirits–seek forgiveness? In other words, could one of these beings seek to reconcile with God through Jesus?

I ask because I was watching a very scary supernatural movie last night. I realize that Hollywood spirits are different than real ones, but I had the thought that the dark, malevolent entity was also created by God, and that God could(?) forgive it if it asked. In other words, I found myself pitying evil, and wondering if even the devil and his minions could seek to reconcile with God.

Is that totally crazy?

The real mystery or question is, “why would anyone do what they did, it seems so foolish and unreasonable to rebel when they couldn’t win?”

But people do it all the time. Why do people climb dangerous mountains, or skydive, or bet impossible odds at las vegas, or do desperate things they know won’t work. Or why do people do mean and terrible things to others? Is it power? Is it the rush or thrill? Is it “its there”? Is it because it is impossible and therefore the challange? Is it to prove themselves?

For whatever reason, as crazy as it may be, the angels rebelled and wanted to take over.
In the history of mankind, this is an ongoing saga, …rebellion…resistence.

But of course, they failed, an ovious outcome to sane thinking. But they weren’t thinking straight, but pridefully crooked. We have seen plenty of that in human behavior as well.

They had their chance and simply messed it up, just as humans have their chance and can mess it up too.

But we are different in one respect from the angels. We are given a second chance to change our minds at any time and come home to our Father in heaven.

But why weren’t they given a 2nd chance? For the same reason we give a child a second chance to avoid a jail sentence that would be denied an adult. They knew full well what they were doing, much more so than we did when we sinned. And so they proceeded to hell and were not sent a saviour as we were.

And since they hate God, they would never say they are sorry which is necessary for forgiveness. They do hate hell, but they hate God more. And hating God, they hate everything about God, including all his creatures, especially Mary, the mother of Jesus, who was chosen by God to bring us our saviour.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[shem97225]

I have an indirect answer. The only reason why we humans qualify for forgiveness is because we were deceived (tricked) into sinning. No one either tempted or tricked the fallen angels. They were fleshless spirits knowing clearly and chose their actions by free will sans any influence or coercion. This being the case, where is the scope for forgiveness for them?

The Hypostasis of the Archons
youtu.be/0iqFHUw09js
This an old text that gives an slightly different account about adam and eve and the fall of man.

 

[ActuarialNinja]

I personally believe that JimG is on the right track, and I would like to expand.

It is my belief that a somewhat satisfying solution to the problem of fallen angels and forgiveness can be arrived at by putting together several rock hard, basic facts:

1: God is Love. He will turn away nobody who come to Him for forgiveness.
2. Angels possess free will and are able to choose between alternatives of good an evil. If this is not so, angels are amoral, like other automata.
3. Angels are extremely powerful, generously endowed by God with remarkable faculties.

Granting these three points. I believe it is logical to say that angels cannot seek forgiveness. The reason is that they do not and cannot want forgiveness. I do believe that if an angel sinned and asked forgiveness, that God will not withhold forgiveness or deny the creature a place in the heavenly host: the whole problem is there are no such angels!

To help our understanding, let us explore a little and try to think of what actually happened. God created the angels with free will and tremendous power. I believe He also endowed them with the ability to fully (or at least adequately) understand the consequences of their decisions. Now we know that fallen angels sinned; though we do not entirely know why.* So can they seek forgiveness once they sin? I say not, because there is no possible set of circumstances that would cause the angel to change its mind. I dont think (as some posters do) that its because the angel gets only one chance at choosing — and if it chooses wrong it is somehow locked out or banished from the outside (like a prisoner is banished from society when forcibly locked up). Instead I say that the entirety of the newly-created angel`s choice — including all of the associated suffering and misery — is understood so well by the creature that even the experience of having its horrible choice actualized will not be sufficient to cause it to change its mind. Indeed, if there were such a circumstance so as to cause the angel to repent, it would well understand that circumstance before making a decision; and would therefore not fall into sin. Who knows: perhaps some angels chose God over self on the purely pragmatic ground that the suffering that follows from choosing self would not be worth it!

If someone sees something wrong in my explanation, I would like to know so I can exchange my position for a better one!

*As an interesting aside, I have heard both Prof. Peter Kreeft and Anglican Bishop NT Wright say that the problem of the first fall may be insoluble to rationality because evil is at bottom an irrational and nonsensical act of the will. I suspect that to impose rationality in understanding evil is a category mistake precisely because evil is anti-rational.

 

[shem97225]

Dear ActuarialNinja

I can see, that you have read the holy scriptures. From my understanding these questions relating to angel and demons are out of our human conception to understand. The key is to remembered is to purify your own conduct everyday! Praying and mediation are very important! Learn more, about Biofeedback techniques. Also read neurology books with the holy scriptures. It will help you control your Central Nervous system.
We must purify our conduct, which means more then just being compasstate to others. (That is the only duty for gentiles.) We as Christians have to improve the world around us as well. I mediate, three times a day; and perform a light work out routine as well. (To improve my motor pathways.) I have wanted to understand the Quran; there is truth in Allah. I hope that other Christians, will take the time to read and understand it’s truth.
From the
Book one of James
Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,[a] whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.

9 Believers in humble circumstances ought to take pride in their high position. 10 But the rich should take pride in their humiliation—since they will pass away like a wild flower. 11 For the sun rises with scorching heat and withers the plant; its blossom falls and its beauty is destroyed. In the same way, the rich will fade away even while they go about their business.

12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.

13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

 

[je333]

Why then did Jesus call Satan “a murderer from the beginning”?

Hi LaSainte!

I thought this could help answer your question taking from CCC paragraph #1033.

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: “He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren. To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

God Bless,
je333