Can God know a Potentially Infinite Future?

[ChainBreaker]

Premise 1: God’s Knowledge is pure actuality insofar as God’s knowledge is identical with his being.

Premise 2: There is no potency in God’s knowledge, and thus God cannot know more than what he already knows.

Premise 3: A potentially infinite future is a process or a string of events that continues on forever.

Conclusion: If God’s knowledge is fully actual (unchanging) this implies that God cannot know a potentially infinite future since the movement from potency to act is never completed and thus the entirety of those events cannot be contained within the knowledge of a being that never changes without actualizing potency in God’s knowledge.

There is only 3 way’s to solve this problem in my view.

1. God changes. This would mean that God’s being is a string of contingent acts of existing, just like the universe.
2. God’s knowledge is not identical with his being and so his knowledge changes but his act of existence does not. This would mean that God is not simple and would lead to further dilemmas.
3. There is no such thing as a potentially infinite future and that therefore all change will eventually come to an end or be completed.

 

[blase6]

Perhaps an actual infinity can exist, despite what some philosophers insist.

 

[ChainBreaker]

Perhaps an actual infinity can exist, despite what some philosophers insist.

An actual infinity of what and how can that be contained within the knowledge of a being that has no potency in his knowledge?

 

[belorg]

An actual infinity of what and how can that be contained within the knowledge of a being that has no potency in his knowledge?

A potentually infinite future would be actual in God’s mind. So, God’s mind would contain an actual infinite number of events, perhaps in one big “chunk” of knowledge that is identical to God.

 

[ChainBreaker]

A potentually infinite future would be actual in God’s mind. So, God’s mind would contain an actual infinite number of events, perhaps in one big “chunk” of knowledge that is identical to God.

A potentially infinite future is never complete. God’s knowledge is complete.

 

[openmind77]

Premise 1: God’s Knowledge is pure actuality insofar as God’s knowledge is identical with his being.

Premise 2: There is no potency in God’s knowledge, and thus God cannot know more than what he already knows.

Premise 3: A potentially infinite future is a process or a string of events that continues on forever.

Conclusion: If God’s knowledge is fully actual (unchanging) this implies that God cannot know a potentially infinite future since the movement from potency to act is never completed and thus the entirety of those events cannot be contained within the knowledge of a being that never changes without actualizing potency in God’s knowledge.

There is only 3 way’s to solve this problem in my view.

1. God changes. This would mean that God’s being is a string of contingent acts of existing, just like the universe.
2. God’s knowledge is not identical with his being and so his knowledge changes but his act of existence does not. This would mean that God is not simple and would lead to further dilemmas.
3. There is no such thing as a potentially infinite future and that therefore all change will eventually come to an end or be completed.

The solution is of course that nothing is eternal/infinite except God. The universe or multiverses will all end someday (including heaven, hell, earth, humans, angels, demons etc)

 

[JerryZ]

Science has proven that the Universe has a finite amount of energy and matter.

Black holes at the center of galaxies gobble up matter and energy into their singularities depleting the Universe of both.

In the end there will be no more matter nor energy left. Leaving a cold, empty, dead Universe.

Since there is no further possibilty of change even though the Universe itself can continue to expand ad infinitum. Potentiality no longer applies (no change).
The Universe is expanding as a result of the Big Bang (causation).

Therefore a Potentially infinite future cannot exist. However an infinite future, devoid of Potentiality can indeed exist.

---

 

[TxGodfollower]

Premise 1: God’s Knowledge is pure actuality insofar as God’s knowledge is identical with his being.

Premise 2: There is no potency in God’s knowledge, and thus God cannot know more than what he already knows.

Premise 3: A potentially infinite future is a process or a string of events that continues on forever.

Conclusion: If God’s knowledge is fully actual (unchanging) this implies that God cannot know a potentially infinite future since the movement from potency to act is never completed and thus the entirety of those events cannot be contained within the knowledge of a being that never changes without actualizing potency in God’s knowledge.

There is only 3 way’s to solve this problem in my view.

1. God changes. This would mean that God’s being is a string of contingent acts of existing, just like the universe.
2. God’s knowledge is not identical with his being and so his knowledge changes but his act of existence does not. This would mean that God is not simple and would lead to further dilemmas.
3. There is no such thing as a potentially infinite future and that therefore all change will eventually come to an end or be completed.

Science has proven that the Universe has a finite amount of energy and matter.

Black holes at the center of galaxies gobble up matter and energy into their singularities depleting the Universe of both.

In the end there will be no more matter nor energy left. Leaving a cold, empty, dead Universe.

Since there is no further possibilty of change even though the Universe itself can continue to expand ad infinitum. Potentiality no longer applies (no change).
The Universe is expanding as a result of the Big Bang (causation).

Therefore a Potentially infinite future cannot exist. However an infinite future, devoid of Potentiality can indeed exist.

---

I think it is closer to the idea of paraellel universes. Each choice that can be made, is made, until you get a vast tree of decisions.

For example, my alarm goes off at 6:30 am. I can decide to (1) get up or (2) sleep more. In one dimension I get up, in other I keep sleeping. This 1 decision “created” 2 dimensions, each exactly the same except 1 decision. Now, in each of those worlds, my brother can decide to wake up when my alarm goes off or stay asleep. Each dimension splits again, and this process repeats for each and every decision. Now, this results in a very very very very very very large number of end results, but it is a finite number and so God can know everything that will happen since He knows each one of these trees.

Also, God exists outside of our understanding of time. He isn’t bound to past/present/future, except when He chooses to be so (like Christ). They are all the same to Him.

 

[glendab]

Hello Chainbreaker.

Premise 1: God’s Knowledge is pure actuality insofar as God’s knowledge is identical with his being.

Premise 2: There is no potency in God’s knowledge, and thus God cannot know more than what he already knows.

Premise 3: A potentially infinite future is a process or a string of events that continues on forever.

Conclusion: If God’s knowledge is fully actual (unchanging) this implies that God cannot know a potentially infinite future since the movement from potency to act is never completed and thus the entirety of those events cannot be contained within the knowledge of a being that never changes without actualizing potency in God’s knowledge.

There is only 3 way’s to solve this problem in my view.

1. God changes. This would mean that God’s being is a string of contingent acts of existing, just like the universe.
2. God’s knowledge is not identical with his being and so his knowledge changes but his act of existence does not. This would mean that God is not simple and would lead to further dilemmas.
3. There is no such thing as a potentially infinite future and that therefore all change will eventually come to an end or be completed.

I’m no expert, but I’ll take a whack. The second part of the second premise is where you’ve got a problem. God cannot be limited, so by stating one thing and saying it places a limit on Him doesn’t make sense. It changes the attributes being spoken of into something that isn’t actually real or true.

The plan God has for all of humanity and the universe has been revealed to us through His Son, Jesus Christ and this has been preserved and protected by the Magisterium of the Church. Your second premise flies in the face of what we already know will be the end of all things and the beginning of Eternity. Everything we see will pass away in an instant, just as He said.

God knows everything. We don’t. Nor can we know everything. That is like trying to pour the oceans of the world into a paper cup and laying the problem of the inability of the cup to hold the waters on the ocean.

Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life and thru Him you will find peace. He is the answer to your questions. It is fun to ask though isn’t it?

Glenda

 

[glendab]

One other thing there Chainbreaker.

Your first premise also isn’t true because the God is not just a body of knowledge, so His knowledge cannot be identical to His being. He’d be what He knew, not anything else and this doesn’t describe God properly. We know He is much more than this.

Glenda

 

[mdgspencer]

God is outside time. God created time when He created the universe. God is simultaneously present to all of time from the beginning at creation to the end of the world. So there is now future to God. There is only future to us, who live in time.
If this was otherwise, by the way, God would not be omniscient, all knowing, because the future would be unknown to him. But he lives in the future at the same eternal instant as he lives now.
This is like a person on a high mountain able to see everything around him at the same time. The people below can’t see everything at the same time, but he does. God is like this, able to see all of time at the same instant.

 

[Neoplatonist]

Could it not be that God has in intellect the idea that serves as the telos and the limit and the created world moves infinitely closer to that limit as it unfolds through time? (Think of the way the function 1/x approaches 0 forever without ever being = to 0.)

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Premise 1: God’s Knowledge is pure actuality insofar as God’s knowledge is identical with his being.

Premise 2: There is no potency in God’s knowledge, and thus God cannot know more than what he already knows.

Premise 3: A potentially infinite future is a process or a string of events that continues on forever.

Conclusion: If God’s knowledge is fully actual (unchanging) this implies that God cannot know a potentially infinite future since the movement from potency to act is never completed and thus the entirety of those events cannot be contained within the knowledge of a being that never changes without actualizing potency in God’s knowledge.

There is only 3 way’s to solve this problem in my view.

1. God changes. This would mean that God’s being is a string of contingent acts of existing, just like the universe.
2. God’s knowledge is not identical with his being and so his knowledge changes but his act of existence does not. This would mean that God is not simple and would lead to further dilemmas.
3. There is no such thing as a potentially infinite future and that therefore all change will eventually come to an end or be completed.

The short answer is there is nothing God cannot know if it is not self contrdictory. So if an infinite future is possible God can know it. If it is not possible he will not know it because that would be self contrdictory.

God’s knowledge is eternal, he knows all that can be known, but he knows it in his eternal now.

But we know that this contingent world will have a definite end. So as far as this world is concerned there will be no infinite future.

But our mode of existence in the world to come is another question. The scriptures say that God will remake the world, a perfect world. And we will be made perfect. And the new world and the new heavens and ourselves will live forever. Now, will this " forever " be considered an infinite time. We know it will be everlasting. But can we regard that as infinite? Either way, God will know it, indeed, he knows it now.

Linus2nd

 

[belorg]

A potentially infinite future is never complete. God’s knowledge is complete.

A potentially infinite future has to be complete in God’s mind if God is truly omniscient.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Premise 1: God’s Knowledge is pure actuality insofar as God’s knowledge is identical with his being.

Premise 2: There is no potency in God’s knowledge, and thus God cannot know more than what he already knows.

Premise 3: A potentially infinite future is a process or a string of events that continues on forever.

Conclusion: If God’s knowledge is fully actual (unchanging) this implies that God cannot know a potentially infinite future since the movement from potency to act is never completed and thus the entirety of those events cannot be contained within the knowledge of a being that never changes without actualizing potency in God’s knowledge.

There is only 3 way’s to solve this problem in my view.

1. God changes. This would mean that God’s being is a string of contingent acts of existing, just like the universe.
2. God’s knowledge is not identical with his being and so his knowledge changes but his act of existence does not. This would mean that God is not simple and would lead to further dilemmas.
3. There is no such thing as a potentially infinite future -]and that therefore all change will eventually come to an end or be completed…/-]
   …as God created time and therefore exists apart from it. Having phrased the premise in terms of an ‘infinite future’ implying a continuing progressing timeline one hasn’t accounted for time/cause-effect being a property which is a limitation on this universe but not God. I.E. it is a part of His creation but does not apply to Him.

 

[Gorgias]

Premise 1: God’s Knowledge is pure actuality insofar as God’s knowledge is identical with his being.

‘God’s being’ being infinite by definition, it seems that you’re asserting, then, that God’s knowledge is infinite. At this point, I think your dilemma is already resolved.

Premise 2: There is no potency in God’s knowledge, and thus God cannot know more than what he already knows.

Which is just another way of stating that God already knows all. It’s not a bound that limits God, but rather, speaks of His boundlessness.

Premise 3: A potentially infinite future is a process or a string of events that continues on forever.

This doesn’t seem to be a proper definition of eternity. In addition to positing eternity as a “string of events” of a certain duration, it seems to bring in the notion of potentiality in an unwarranted way. What is it about eternity that you associate with potentiality? Eternity isn’t a sequence of ‘present’ events receding into the ‘past’ and encountering new ‘future’ moments in a sequence; rather, it is an eternal ‘present’. It seems that your conclusion, then, based on its inaccurate definition of eternity, invalidly tangles God up with potentiality, and from this entanglement, gives you the room to assert (erroneously) the problem you’ve presented.

Rather, God exists in eternity (even though we exist in time). His continued existence in eternity does not impinge His knowledge.

 

[Bahman]

Premise 1: God’s Knowledge is pure actuality insofar as God’s knowledge is identical with his being.

An actual knowledge must manifest itself into existence hence future and past should exist which problematic because they cannot be realized together.

Premise 2: There is no potency in God’s knowledge, and thus God cannot know more than what he already knows.

Hence, God is perfect and no change is possible. Yet, we observe changes hence the former is wrong.

Premise 3: A potentially infinite future is a process or a string of events that continues on forever.

There does only exist potentially immediate future otherwise future is fixed.

Conclusion: If God’s knowledge is fully actual (unchanging) this implies that God cannot know a potentially infinite future since the movement from potency to act is never completed and thus the entirety of those events cannot be contained within the knowledge of a being that never changes without actualizing potency in God’s knowledge.

It doesn’t follow. Non of your premises was right.

There is only 3 way’s to solve this problem in my view.

1. God changes. This would mean that God’s being is a string of contingent acts of existing, just like the universe.
2. God’s knowledge is not identical with his being and so his knowledge changes but his act of existence does not. This would mean that God is not simple and would lead to further dilemmas.
3. There is no such thing as a potentially infinite future and that therefore all change will eventually come to an end or be completed.

It doesn’t follow.

 

[ChainBreaker]

‘God’s being’ being infinite by definition, it seems that you’re asserting, then, that God’s knowledge is infinite. At this point, I think your dilemma is already resolved.

God’s knowledge is identical with his being. This is to say that God’s knowing something does not change and does not involve change.

Which is just another way of stating that God already knows all. It’s not a bound that limits God, but rather, speaks of His boundlessness.

God knows everything that is metaphysically possible to know

This doesn’t seem to be a proper definition of eternity. In addition to positing eternity as a “string of events” of a certain duration, it seems to bring in the notion of potentiality in an unwarranted way. What is it about eternity that you associate with potentiality? Eternity isn’t a sequence of ‘present’ events receding into the ‘past’ and encountering new ‘future’ moments in a sequence; rather, it is an eternal ‘present’. It seems that your conclusion, then, based on its inaccurate definition of eternity, invalidly tangles God up with potentiality, and from this entanglement, gives you the room to assert (erroneously) the problem you’ve presented.

I think you may be misunderstanding what I am saying.

I am arguing that it is impossible for God to know a string of events that go on forever in the sense of never reaching an end, or and endless movement of potency to act, because that would mean that God’s actual knowledge would never be fully actual in respect to change because there is no end to change in this particular scenario.

Rather, God exists in eternity (even though we exist in time). His continued existence in eternity does not impinge His knowledge.

I am not arguing that God cannot know that which is changing. I am arguing that God cannot have full actual knowledge of an unending sequence of change as that would seem to contradict his omniscience as well as his omnipresence.

 

[ChainBreaker]

Could it not be that God has in intellect the idea that serves as the telos and the limit and the created world moves infinitely closer to that limit as it unfolds through time? (Think of the way the function 1/x approaches 0 forever without ever being = to 0.)

Well, if “0” represents the act of existence…perhaps we could say that potency is forever moving towards actuality. If God is the act of existence by which the potency of creation becomes actual then maybe somehow it is not contradictory because God’s knowledge in this case would be the act of existence by which each potency becomes actual. Thus it would be impossible for God not to know a potentially infinite future because God is the very act by which a thing “is”. Perhaps a contingent being is not a real number in mathematical terms because it is not by its own nature existing!

Can’t be sure. Need time to think it through.

 

[Gorgias]

God’s knowledge is identical with his being. This is to say that God’s knowing something does not change and does not involve change.

Agreed; and that’s why your argument has a hard time getting off the ground in the first place. It’s difficult to see why a sequence of events (considered as a sequence) should thwart an infinite, immutable God.

I think you may be misunderstanding what I am saying.

Nope; I’m just disagreeing with your premise.

I am arguing that it is impossible for God to know a string of events that go on forever in the sense of never reaching an end, or and endless movement of potency to act,

To whose perspective is this string of events “going on forever”? To whose perspective is this a movement from “potency to act”? To ours, perhaps; but not to God’s. God’s perspective is the eternal now. In that light, one sees that for God, there’s not a ‘chain’ of events that outstrips God’s purview, such that He would experience change as He ‘experiences’ the chain.

Even if you don’t want to consider that eternity is an “eternal present” – which I think is the proper way to understand it – nevertheless, it’s important to see that this is how God perceives reality. It’s just all “now” to Him. So, what you perceive as a ‘sequence’ (and therefore, as something that is experienced sequentially) is no sequence at all to God.

Therefore, there is no impossibility for God to know “a string of events that go on forever”; He knows them all, immediately, without sequence.