Can God truly understand the human condition?

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prodigalson2011

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Here’s a question that sometimes keeps me awake at night: Can God truly understand the human condition?

Of course, we all know the traditional teaching that through the Incarnation, “He was like us in all things but sin.” But is that really so?

While he may have experienced physical pain, etc., can a human person endowed with a divine intellect and will truly understand the confusion and despair that can befall a finite mind?

Can a man who knows He is God truly relate to the doubts and fears of a mere mortal?

Of course, this all leads to the question of whether even God can rightly judge us? For a soul that has turned against Him, can God truly understand and evaluate the sufferings that may have led that person to such a state?

Discuss.
 
I doubt anyone can attentively read the accounts of Jesus’ life, through to the Agony in the Garden and the Crucifixion and doubt that in the person of Jesus, God experienced the full range of human experience.
 
prodigalson2011 said:
Here’s a question that sometimes keeps me awake at night: Can God truly understand the human condition?

Of course, we all know the traditional teaching that through the Incarnation, “He was like us in all things but sin.” But is that really so?

While he may have experienced physical pain, etc., can a human person endowed with a divine intellect and will truly understand the confusion and despair that can befall a finite mind?

Can a man who knows He is God truly relate to the doubts and fears of a mere mortal?

Of course, this all leads to the question of whether even God can rightly judge us? For a soul that has turned against Him, can God truly understand and evaluate the sufferings that may have led that person to such a state?

Discuss.
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Of course He can, because He was the one who made the human mind and human thought process and the complications of the human psyche and how the human mind responds to things etc. So He understands it more that we do. He created the human mind and human emotions etc. How could He NOT know and understand it? If He didn’t know and understand it, it wouldn’t exist. In Him we live, in Him we move and in Him we have our being. It’s because of Him that we are even able to think right now.
 
Even though that is true, there is still a bit of a conundrum. God has both the human perspective and the divine - simultaneously - but that is not the same as only having the human perspective. Can God forget or ignore that He is God?

As for the life of Jesus, if a man knows of his special condition, of his destiny and of a specific purpose for his life and suffering, then the agony and uncertainty which characterises the human experience could not have been shared by Him. Not to mention not having to worry about “finishing the race”.

Knowing what the future holds for us, and having to worry about it, is fundamental to the human experience. This may seem like a negative comment but, knowing when and how you are going to die and that your sacrifice will be for a magnificent cause is the most comforting thing I can envisage. Part of being human is lacking this comfort.
 
paziego said:
Even though that is true, there is still a bit of a conundrum. God has both the human perspective and the divine - simultaneously - but that is not the same as only having the human perspective. Can God forget or ignore that He is God?

As for the life of Jesus, if a man knows of his special condition, of his destiny and of a specific purpose for his life and suffering, then the agony and uncertainty which characterises the human experience could not have been shared by Him. Not to mention not having to worry about “finishing the race”.

Knowing what the future holds for us, and having to worry about it, is fundamental to the human experience. This may seem like a negative comment but, knowing when and how you are going to die and that your sacrifice will be for a magnificent cause is the most comforting thing I can envisage. Part of being human is lacking this comfort.
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He sweated blood in His terror and anguish and begged not to have to go through His passion for crying out loud - you can’t get more agonised or uncertain than that.
 
That was only one moment of His life. But His overall experience of the human condition was fundamentally different from ours. He didn’t have to worry about life after death and was able to live His 33 years in calm with the knowledge that it was all worth it. There was no existential angst, identity issues, or psychological strain which defines the human condition. In fact, His life and death trivialised these things.
 
paziego said:
That was only one moment of His life. But His overall experience of the human condition was fundamentally different from ours. He didn’t have to worry about life after death and was able to live His 33 years in calm with the knowledge that it was all worth it. There was no existential angst, identity issues, or psychological strain which defines the human condition. In fact, His life and death trivialised these things.
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What makes you think it was just that one moment and that all the other moments of His life were somehow different? For that matter, why wouldn’t even that one moment be enough? Can God not understand in a millisecond things it would take us a lifetime to learn or understand?
 
Not wanting to feel physical pain is not the same as struggling with the other issues I mentioned. While feeling pain is something we even share with animals, the psychological pressures of being a human being are unique to us. Being aware of a grand destiny and of a divine nature changes the experience of life, in a way we cold never envisage. He certainly could have feared suffering physical pain at other times in His life, and even a millisecond of that pain would give God first hand experience of it, but that is not the same as experiencing the human condition.

And as for that moment of His life - why would He beg not to go have to go through with it if It meant the redemption of mankind? Firemen risk dying in a terrible painful way for vastly inferior causes, yet they do it willingly.
 
prodigalson2011 said:
Here’s a question that sometimes keeps me awake at night: Can God truly understand the human condition?

Of course, we all know the traditional teaching that through the Incarnation, “He was like us in all things but sin.” But is that really so?

While he may have experienced physical pain, etc., can a human person endowed with a divine intellect and will truly understand the confusion and despair that can befall a finite mind?

Can a man who knows He is God truly relate to the doubts and fears of a mere mortal?

Of course, this all leads to the question of whether even God can rightly judge us? For a soul that has turned against Him, can God truly understand and evaluate the sufferings that may have led that person to such a state?

Discuss.
Click to expand...
I get what you are saying and I have thought the same thing too. Isn’t actually doing it differently then just knowing about it? I get the analogy of a doctor knowing all about sickness with out ever having the sickness, but if they got the sickness they would have to have a better understanding of the implications.

This is always why I have a problem with looking to Mary for guidance. She only had one child and He never did anything wrong… As far as watching Him die, she isn’t alone in that either. Many mothers have watched their children die, through sickness or injury. And Mary knew He would return and bring salvation to all. That had to be some of a comfort!
 
1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. “God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him.”26 (30)
Code: 
- In this Jesus was fundamentally different. He was not merely a man left in the hand of his own council, his full and blessed perfection was there from the start, and he had no need to seek his creator as he was uniquely one with him.
1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach. (396, 1849, 2006)
  • How could Jesus’ freedom not be bound definitively to the ultimate good? He is God. Therefore his acts cannot be a choice between good and evil in the characteristically human way.
1734 Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. Progress in virtue, knowledge of the good, and ascesis enhance the mastery of the will over its acts. (1036, 1804)
  • Unlike us, Jesus had perfect knowledge of the good. Unlike us he did not need to master his will.
1735 Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors. (597)
  • How could psychological factors, ignorance, social factors or inadvertence have affected Jesus? He new his destiny and was aware of his mission and divine nature. He could not have been susceptible to these factors in the same way that we are. That is why he did not partake in the human experience.
 
paziego said:
That is why he did not partake in the human experience.
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What of the 18 years of His life that we know nothing about? How can you justify a judgement against Jesus without knowing all the facts?
 
Jesus never: had emotionally unstable or selfish parents, had an identity crisis, never felt inferior, inadequate or not good enough, experienced the pull of sin as he did not have concupiscence, felt ashamed of who he was, or not good enough, doubted the Father’s goodness, never doubted Father’s love for him, never had to constantly fight lust, had a sense of purpose, had an excellent intellect, so he has no clue what are the psychological ramifications of being a dummy, was self-conscious, wished he hadn’t been born, was two-minded about God, was lost as to what the heck he was doing on earth, felt that his life was worthless and going nowhere. MOst of us are like peasants who struggle to make ends meet, Jesus is a king’s son who neevr lacked anything paying us a visit. The underlying question is this: can Christ understand what it’s like top be a human born in original sin, can Christ understand what it’s like to be weighed down by all kinds of psychological troubles? When Christ was despised, rejected, punched in the face, spat on, did any of that resonate in him, did he start to feel that there might be something wrong with him that people might treat him that way? Can Jesus understand what it’s like to be tormented with sin, to be addicted to sin, without having experienced it himself? Would God understand the human condition any less if it hadn’t been for the Incarnation?
Lots of people who are tortured I'm sure do not sweat blood. what was so different about Jesus that he would sweat blood, and actually, can one truly sweat blood when experiencing terror? It may have been a way to convey that he was scared stiff.
 
paziego said:
1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. “God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him.”26 (30)
Code: 
- In this Jesus was fundamentally different. He was not merely a man left in the hand of his own council, his full and blessed perfection was there from the start, and he had no need to seek his creator as he was uniquely one with him.
1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach. (396, 1849, 2006)
  • How could Jesus’ freedom not be bound definitively to the ultimate good? He is God. Therefore his acts cannot be a choice between good and evil in the characteristically human way.
1734 Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. Progress in virtue, knowledge of the good, and ascesis enhance the mastery of the will over its acts. (1036, 1804)
  • Unlike us, Jesus had perfect knowledge of the good. Unlike us he did not need to master his will.
1735 Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors. (597)
  • How could psychological factors, ignorance, social factors or inadvertence have affected Jesus? He knew his destiny and was aware of his mission and divine nature. He could not have been susceptible to these factors in the same way that we are. That is why he did not partake in the human experience.
Click to expand...
I can tell you have thought all these things through. Good points.
 
JM3 said:
What of the 18 years of His life that we know nothing about? How can you justify a judgement against Jesus without knowing all the facts?
Click to expand...
I could turn the table and ask you the same thing (presuming your stance is that Jesus understood the human condition). I’d guess the 18 years had been smooth sailing, living with mom, praying, working, doing stuff, having people over, being entertained etc. The only two sinless people of the world living together. Yeah, 18 good years. No torment, no anxious soul searching. Waiting in the wings for when the time was ripe. “Be anxious for nothing”. I’m pretty positive he must have followed his own advice to the letter.
 
paziego said:
1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. “God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him.”26 (30)
  • In this Jesus was fundamentally different. He was not merely a man left in the hand of his own council, his full and blessed perfection was there from the start, and he had no need to seek his creator as he was uniquely one with him.
1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach. (396, 1849, 2006)
  • How could Jesus’ freedom not be bound definitively to the ultimate good? He is God. Therefore his acts cannot be a choice between good and evil in the characteristically human way.
1734 Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. Progress in virtue, knowledge of the good, and ascesis enhance the mastery of the will over its acts. (1036, 1804)
  • Unlike us, Jesus had perfect knowledge of the good. Unlike us he did not need to master his will.
1735 Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors. (597)
  • How could psychological factors, ignorance, social factors or inadvertence have affected Jesus? He new his destiny and was aware of his mission and divine nature. He could not have been susceptible to these factors in the same way that we are. That is why he did not partake in the human experience.
Click to expand...
My presenting CCC, 1730 in answer to the thread’s question was intended to draw reader’s focus on God, Himself.

In addition, I would appreciate a discussion on your interesting perspectives.
 
Robertanthony said:
I could turn the table and ask you the same thing (presuming your stance is that Jesus understood the human condition). I’d guess the 18 years had been smooth sailing, living with mom, praying, working, doing stuff, having people over, being entertained etc. The only two sinless people of the world living together. Yeah, 18 good years. No torment, no anxious soul searching. Waiting in the wings for when the time was ripe. “Be anxious for nothing”. I’m pretty positive he must have followed his own advice to the letter.
Click to expand...
Your base your judgement on your reasoning and not on reality. When you know what Jesus felt and thought every second of His life, then you can judge rightly (as He knows what you have felt, thought and done every second of your life). The OP’s question, “Can God truly understand the human condition?”, suggests that God is somehow lacking. God knows every human’s ‘condition’, including how every person defines ‘human condition’. There is nothing that God does not know. To think otherwise is to turn away from God.
 
prodigalson2011 said:
Here’s a question that sometimes keeps me awake at night: Can God truly understand the human condition?

Of course, we all know the traditional teaching that through the Incarnation, “He was like us in all things but sin.” But is that really so?

While he may have experienced physical pain, etc., can a human person endowed with a divine intellect and will truly understand the confusion and despair that can befall a finite mind?

Can a man who knows He is God truly relate to the doubts and fears of a mere mortal?

Of course, this all leads to the question of whether even God can rightly judge us? For a soul that has turned against Him, can God truly understand and evaluate the sufferings that may have led that person to such a state?

Discuss.
Click to expand...
You wrote, “can a human person endowed with a divine intellect and will truly understand the confusion and despair that can befall a finite mind?”, this is one of the reasons why I believe, not know, but believe that Jesus gave up His Omni’s in the Incarnation which among other things means that Jesus was not Omniscient, did not “know” everything.

I believe that Jesus came to “know” that He was God in the flesh not that He knew it from birth or even conception for that matter, in other words that Jesus was just as empty-headed as the rest of us at birth.

In the part I copied is contained, “divine intellect and will”, seems to me that it is written that Jesus very much had a “human will” or He would not have had to pray, “Not My Will but THY WILL be done”.

God Is a Being of Love and it was LOVE that was Incarnated, just as it is in the “Image” of Love that we are created.
 
JM3 said:
Your base your judgement on your reasoning and not on reality. When you know what Jesus felt and thought every second of His life, then you can judge rightly (as He knows what you have felt, thought and done every second of your life). The OP’s question, “Can God truly understand the human condition?”, suggests that God is somehow lacking. God knows every human’s ‘condition’, including how every person defines ‘human condition’. There is nothing that God does not know. To think otherwise is to turn away from God.
Click to expand...
Just because you’ve been taught something, you think it’s irrefutable truth, and then turn around and tell me I can’t say anyhting about Jesus unless I knew exactly how he felt and thought every second of his earthly life. Sounds reasonable.

Matthew 15:16 If you know someone through and through, how can you lament that they’re slow to understand if you know exactly how much they can process? Don’t roll your eyes when your 5 year old doesn’t understand algebra or something his intelligence doesn’t allow him to grasp.

Matthew 5:48 If Adam disobeyed, how much more are we likely to disobey and sin.? Asking us to be perfect is not a reachable goal. He used the imperative , so I understand it was like a command from Jesus. Asking someone to do something which is impossible for him is not knowing that person.

“God’s ways are so far above your ways”. The only thing in common with me and Jesus is that he had a physical body. He was like a deified Adam. A god with a human appearance. God may very well be like a genius man who has a collection of PHds but doesn’t know how much a pound of butter costs, or who Bruno Mars is.
 
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