Can I release my dead father from Purgatory by devoutly reading 30 minutes of Sacred Scripture?

[Sir_Knight]

I would like to know where this is in the Bible.

See John 20:22-23 & Matt. 18:18 – the power to remit/retain sin is also the power to remit/retain punishment due to sin. If the Apostles and their successors can forgive the eternal penalty of sin, they can certainly remit the temporal penalty of sin … which is called an “indulgence”.

 

[Hoxbar]

It’s a long story, but not everything the church teaches is clearly spelled out in black and white in scripture. Sometimes a little digging is required. For example, the word “trinity” isn’t in the Bible either.

I don’t mean to sound bad, but as a possible converter how can I believe doctrine that is not written in the Bible? I understand John 20:22-23 & Matt. 18:18, is where Christ gave the apostles the ability to forgive sin. I do not see how Christ gave the Apostles the ability to grant indulgences, furthermore I can’t see a biblical reason for indulgences. The way I see it we ask for forgivness and that’s that. I also know that the word Trinity does not exist in the Bible, but the Father, Son and Holy Ghost does appear and it does several times. I’m smart enough to know that something does not need to be spelled out in black and white for it to be doctrine. I also do not mean to sound cross but the Catechism of the Catholic Church means nothing to a non catholic and is not a way to defend doctrine. Since I understand nothing about the Catechism, I can not see it as a biblical document. Don’t take offense but I could write anything and call it doctrine if other books, ect also count as inspired. So how can I come to grips with these things if I thinking about being a catholic?

 

[jmcrae]

I don’t mean to sound bad, but as a possible converter how can I believe doctrine that is not written in the Bible?

Because it is the Church who gave us the Bible, in 405 AD. Jesus and the Apostles were not reading from the New Testament when Jesus was walking upon the earth. The books of the New Testament were written alongside many, many other books that were written about Jesus, and it took until 405 AD for the Church (the Bishops and the Pope) to discern the 27 books of the New Testament that we today call “the Bible”.

If the Church has the power and the authority to give us the Bible, and we can trust that no error was made when they did this, we can certainly trust the Church on other matters of equal weight, as well - and we can trust the Catechism because it was written by people who have the same level of authority as those who discerned the books of the Bible.

We had the teachings about Mary and about Indulgences before we had a Bible, as well, so if the Church was “off track” on those things, then we also can’t trust them to have given us the right Bible, either. You can’t pick one thing that they did, say “This is from God” and then throw out everything else that they did. Either we believe them in everything and we know that we can trust the Bible, or we don’t believe them in anything, and we don’t trust the Bible, either.

But, it’s insane to trust their work on the Bible, while at the same time not trusting them on everything else, because, either they are trustworthy, or they are not. We can’t pick and choose; otherwise we are setting ourselves up in authority, and God definitely didn’t give that charism to us.

 

[Sir_Knight]

I don’t mean to sound bad, but as a possible converter how can I believe doctrine that is not written in the Bible? I understand John 20:22-23 & Matt. 18:18, is where Christ gave the apostles the ability to forgive sin. I do not see how Christ gave the Apostles the ability to grant indulgences, furthermore I can’t see a biblical reason for indulgences. The way I see it we ask for forgivness and that’s that. I also know that the word Trinity does not exist in the Bible, but the Father, Son and Holy Ghost does appear and it does several times. I’m smart enough to know that something does not need to be spelled out in black and white for it to be doctrine. I also do not mean to sound cross but the Catechism of the Catholic Church means nothing to a non catholic and is not a way to defend doctrine. Since I understand nothing about the Catechism, I can not see it as a biblical document. Don’t take offense but I could write anything and call it doctrine if other books, ect also count as inspired. So how can I come to grips with these things if I thinking about being a catholic?

If you would believe in the concept of Purgatory, then you would understand the need for Indulgences.

God is all-merciful but He is also all-just. If I break the window of your car, I can ask for your forgiveness and you can forgive me but the car window remain broken until somebody pays to have it fixed. Justice demands that I, being the one who broke it, pay to have it fixed.

An indulgence wipes away that debt as well. As I said above, if the Apostles and their successors can forgive the eternal penalty of sin, they can certainly remit the temporal penalty of sin … which is called an “indulgence”.

 

[Hoxbar]

Because it is the Church who gave us the Bible, in 405 AD. Jesus and the Apostles were not reading from the New Testament when Jesus was walking upon the earth. The books of the New Testament were written alongside many, many other books that were written about Jesus, and it took until 405 AD for the Church (the Bishops and the Pope) to discern the 27 books of the New Testament that we today call “the Bible”.

If the Church has the power and the authority to give us the Bible, and we can trust that no error was made when they did this, we can certainly trust the Church on other matters of equal weight, as well - and we can trust the Catechism because it was written by people who have the same level of authority as those who discerned the books of the Bible.

We had the teachings about Mary and about Indulgences before we had a Bible, as well, so if the Church was “off track” on those things, then we also can’t trust them to have given us the right Bible, either. You can’t pick one thing that they did, say “This is from God” and then throw out everything else that they did. Either we believe them in everything and we know that we can trust the Bible, or we don’t believe them in anything, and we don’t trust the Bible, either.

But, it’s insane to trust their work on the Bible, while at the same time not trusting them on everything else, because, either they are trustworthy, or they are not. We can’t pick and choose; otherwise we are setting ourselves up in authority, and God definitely didn’t give that charism to us.

It’s kinda hard to argue with that. I did not think of it like this, thanks for the information. The History of the Early Church is something the Protestant chuches do not teach. I grew up in church and did not understand how the Bible was written until I attended college. I can remember asking my Sunday School teacher how the Bible was written, the answer: “By Holy and Inspired Men of God”. Nothing was ever mentioned about the Pope or Catholic Church.

Sir Knight, thanks for the answer it has given me something to think hard about.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Here’s something else for you to think about. Many Protestants believe that Jesus paid the debt for all of our sins but what does the bible actually tell us in Hebrews 10:26-27 …

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

… I’ll be more than happy to discuss any of this with you further either on the open board or via PM or e-mail.

 

[thistle]

Here’s something else for you to think about. Many Protestants believe that Jesus paid the debt for all of our sins but what does the bible actually tell us in Hebrews 10:26-27 …

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

… I’ll be more than happy to discuss any of this with you further either on the open board or via PM or e-mail.

Protestants haven’t figured out there is a difference between redemption and salvation!

 

[seagal]

Even though I’m a cradle Catholic, I’ve always found the concept of indulgences confusing. For example, how can the Church possibly decide how long a soul remains in purgatory, or how many prayers or other holy acts are needed to “move along” a soul to heaven. PhilotheaZ partially explained this by reminding me of Matt 16:18-19. But in the Baltimore Catechism (as quoted by fecistonasadte) it says

The Church by means of indulgences remits the temporal punishment due to sin by applying to us from her spiritual treasury part of the infinite satisfaction of Jesus Christ and of the superabundant satisfaction of the Blessed Virgin Mary and of the saints.

So do I have to let the priest know that I wish to receive an indulgence and that I’ve performed such and such an act? If I do it in private how does “the Church” remit the punishment?

 

[beckycmarie]

It is said that even the “just” man sins seven times a day.

To be free from all attachment to sin, even venial sin is necessary for a plenary indulgence… Does that mean that if I were to commit a venial sin the day before or after obtaining a plenary indulgence that the indulgence is void?

Or does that mean that I only have to have a hatred for my venial sins… ?

On the topic of detachment from sin, you might find this post from another thread helpful:

Plenary Indulgences Not Impossible

 

[PhilotheaZ]

Even though I’m a cradle Catholic, I’ve always found the concept of indulgences confusing. For example, how can the Church possibly decide how long a soul remains in purgatory, or how many prayers or other holy acts are needed to “move along” a soul to heaven. PhilotheaZ partially explained this by reminding me of Matt 16:18-19. But in the Baltimore Catechism (as quoted by fecistonasadte) it says
So do I have to let the priest know that I wish to receive an indulgence and that I’ve performed such and such an act? If I do it in private how does “the Church” remit the punishment?

The Church doesn’t decide how long a soul remains in Purgatory; God does. But God has given the Church authority to make decisions on His behalf.

As to “how many prayers or other holy acts are needed to ‘move along’ a soul to heaven,” the Church attempted to eliminate some of this confusion by eliminating from the Enchiridion on Indulgences all references to specific lengths of time attached to indulgences. Where the Church used to assign terms such as “300 days indulgence” to certain acts, now she only uses the terms "partial"or “plenary” indulgence. Either we assist a soul in remitting part of his temporal punishment by an indulgenced act, or we assist him in remitting all of it.

The Church decides these things using prudential judgment guided by the Holy Spirit. Remember, the Church has been entrusted with the treasury of the merits of Christ’s redeeming actions, and these merits are infinite. Christ has earned it all, but He has deposited it in the “bank” of the Church to be distributed as the Church sees fit. There is plenty to go around. (Remember, the Church is the body of Christ on earth; so it is really God making the decisions, through the instrument of the Church He established.)

The Church establishes indulgences as a way to encourage prayer for the faithful departed, and as a way to encourage practices that are spiritually beneficial to us (e.g., reading the Bible, praying the Rosary, Eucharistic Adoration, etc.).

 

[jmcrae]

So do I have to let the priest know that I wish to receive an indulgence and that I’ve performed such and such an act?

No.

If I do it in private how does “the Church” remit the punishment?

The Church is not only the earthly institution that we see on earth - it also extends into Purgatory and into Heaven. Christ Himself is the head of the Church - the Pope is His vicar on earth. Christ does the thing that the Indulgence promises; no one else needs to know about it.

So, the Pope writes a decree that such and such an action receives an Indulgence. By the power of the Keys (“what you [meaning the Pope] bind on earth is bound in Heaven, what you [the Pope] release on earth is released in Heaven” - Matthew 16:18-19) this decree is made known in Heaven and in Purgatory, so -

You do the action and gain an Indulgence

A soul is released from Purgatory and goes to Heaven

All without anyone on earth having to know about it

Because Jesus binds/releases in Heaven what was bound/released by the Pope and actually done by you on earth, and so the effect (which is caused by the Church) occurs in Heaven, because of the power of the Keys, which is the authority that Jesus gives to His Church on earth to be able to have a deciding effect on events occuring in Purgatory and in Heaven.

I hope this makes some kind of sense.

 

[seagal]

I hope this makes some kind of sense.

Yes it does, thanks