Can Infidels be Innocents?

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Can Infidels be Innocents? Two so-called fatwas (even a novice in Islam knows they do not fulfill the definition of a fatwa, which has to be in response to a query) came out in July condemning the 7/7 attacks in London.

British Muslim Forum: “Islam strictly, strongly and severely condemns the use of violence and the destruction of innocent lives.” (July 18, 2005)
Fiqh Council of North America: “Islam strictly condemns religious extremism and the use of violence against innocent lives.” (July 28, 2005)
Non-Muslims can be forgiven if they assume the reference to “innocent lives” includes those traveling on the Underground and bus lines in London three weeks earlier. But the term “innocent lives” can be much more restricted in application, as a fascinating article in the Sunday Times (London) makes clear.

Titled “Undercover in the academy of hatred,” it is based on the undercover research by Ali Hussain of the newspaper’s Insight team. Ali joined the Saviour Sect in June, a few weeks before the 7/7 bombings and took along his tape recorder. What he heard is hair-raising – it is imperative for Muslims to “instil terror into the hearts of the kuffar,” “I am a terrorist. As a Muslim, of course I am a terrorist,” “They will build tall buildings and we will bring them down,” the bombings were “a good start” and Allah should “bless those involved”

He also heard two speakers discuss whom they consider to be innocent.

Zachariah, referring to the London passengers: “They’re kuffar [infidels]. They’re not people who are innocent. The people who are innocent are the people who are with us or those who are living under the Islamic state.”
Omar Bakri Mohammed, the sect’s leader, who publicly condemned the deaths of “innocents,” but at the Selby Centre in Wood Green, north London, on July 22 referred to the 7/7 bombers as the “fantastic four” and explained that his grief for the “innocent” applied only to Muslims. “Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar.”
 
i pray that Allah rids us of the hizb at-tahreer and al-muhaajiroon groups and those who follow their kharajite ideologies.

those kooks don’t speak on behalf of islam or the majority of muslims.

prophet muhammad forbade the killing of non-combatants, as well as the destruction of buildings, homes, temples and plants while at war.
 
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r.gonzales:
prophet muhammad forbade the killing of non-combatants, as well as the destruction of buildings, homes, temples and plants while at war.
Can you substantiate your claim ?

I have hundreads of verses from Mohammed’s sunnah to disprove your claim.
 
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Ahmed_Khan:
Can you substantiate your claim ?

I have hundreads of verses from Mohammed’s sunnah to disprove your claim.
So do I, muslims study Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, and then say ridiculous things like
  1. The Quran has reached us complete and unaltered
  2. Mohammed fought only defensive wars
This is just wishful thinking.
 
wishful thinking, perhaps on the part of you two…

these are just a few of the proofs and evidences from islam’s texts to back what i say.

Allah says, “for that reason We prescribed for the children of israel that whoever killed a soul without a soul (i.e., without right) or corruption in the earth, then it would be as if he killed all of mankind. and whoever let it live then it would be as if he let mankind live.” (5:32).

prophet muhammad said, “a soul is not killed unjustly, except that a guarantee from its blood is upon the first son of Adam because he was the first one to introduce killing.” (bukhari #3335, muslim #1677).

Allah says, “and from the people is one whose speech pleases you in the worldly life, and he calls Allah to testify to what is in his heart while he is of the more dogged quarrelers. and if he turned away he took steps in the earth to cause corruption in it and destroy the crops and the cattle. and Allah does not like corruption. and if it is said to him, ‘fear Allah!’ he is taken by arrogance in sin. so, hell suffices him and truly what an evil abode it is.” (2:24-206)

anas bin maalik narrated that prophet muhammad said, “go forth in Allah’s name, in Allah’s cause. do not misappropriate (the spoils of war), nor behave treacherously, nor mutilate; do not kill an elderly person, nor a child, nor a woman, nor a monk in a hermitage.” (compiled by the authors of the sunan).

Allah says, “fight in Allah’s path, those who fight you and do not transgress. surely, Allah does not like the transgressors.” (2:190).
 
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Ahmed_Khan:
I have hundreads of verses from Mohammed’s sunnah to disprove your claim.
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hawk:
So do I…
i wonder what happened to all these hundreds of verses to disprove my claim… :hmmm:

and with “hawk” actually being a group of individuals instead of just one person, surely, one of you could have found the time to refute my “unsubstantiated ( :rolleyes: ) claims” with even just a few of your hundreds of verses…
 
what happened hawk? i thought you had hundreds of verses to disprove my claims… :rolleyes:
 
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