Can one do penance for those who do not do penance?

[SighGuy]

Quick question. Indulgences, as far as I know, cannot be applied to the living (other than the one obtaining them), but may be applied to the Church Suffering in Purgatory.

Cannot satisfaction (aside from indulgence, if it even be considered a type of satisfaction) be applied to others living on Earth? Or if not, what value is it then that benefits our living neighbor if we should do something for the expiation of the sins of the world? I would have guessed, it were satisfaction.

I know we can pray for those alive, but are we not also able to carry out penance for them?

Thanks.

 

[Genesis315]

You can make satisfaction for those alive, you just can’t grant an indulgence for someone else alive.

An indulgence is a grant from the Church’s whole treasury of merit and as such can only be granted by the Church’s lawful pastors, the bishops (the chief bishop, the Pope, of course has supreme authority in this matter). Only a bishop can dispense from this treasury since it belongs to the whole Church.

But you can apply your own personal merits to another any time you like. You just don’t have authority to personally dispense from the Church’s whole treasury of merits.

While the Church generally does not grant indulgences that one person can obtain for another living person, it is not theologically impossible. For example, there have been some rare privileged altars in the past where the indulgence could be applied to the dying, not just the dead (at a privileged altar, an indulgence was granted to the person for whom the priest offered the Mass, whether that person knew it or not).

 

[SighGuy]

Ah, I see. Then, I must ask. Do we know if our satisfactions can lead to the conversion of sinners? I would imagine our prayers may do so, as impetration (although prayer also has a satisfactory component).

There is, after all, the prayer “Oh, my Jesus, it is for love of Thee, for the conversion of sinners and in reparation for the offenses against the Immaculate Heart of Mary,” which is offered during daily sacrifices at the behest of Our Lady of Fatima.

This is inclining me to suppose that satisfactions and prayers as well may lead to the conversion of sinners…?

 

[SighGuy]

I failed to mention it earlier, but I thought the information you posted about indulgences rarely being applied elsewhere was very interesting. Thank you.

Sorry, I’m kind of posting here at the same time as reading through Catholic Encyclopedia and Summa Theologica at New Advent.

So this is my newest understanding.

We may not merit condignly anything for another, as our merits are our own.
We may merit congruously many things for both ourselves and for others-- more for others, in fact. We may not congruously merit our own first conversion (obviously) but we can congruously merit the first conversion of another, or even their own final perseverance!
We may satisfy for another, on earth or in Purgatory.
We may pray for others and God may effect their conversion this way.

Is that correct? I would then have to understand the Fatima apparitions to be stating that we must convert souls in the fourth manner (prayer), and also in sacrificing for others (thus meriting congruously). I am unaware if satisfying for another would be considered proper to their conversion or if it be purely functional towards their temporal punishment. I’m going to go with no.

newadvent.org/summa/5013.htm satisfaction Summa Theologica
newadvent.org/summa/2114.htm merit Summa Theologica

newadvent.org/cathen/10202b.htm merit Catholic Encyclopedia