Can reality ever be known?

[Robert_Sock]

I think of reality as coming in layers. with each successive layer taking on a qualitatively different meaning. But I do not believe that anybody should deceive themselves as though they have a good grasp of reality!

People are addicted to a false perception of reality which they consider real. Only God can know reality.

 

[meltzerboy]

I think of reality as coming in layers. with each successive layer taking on a qualitatively different meaning. But I do not believe that anybody should deceive themselves as though they have a good grasp of reality!

People are addicted to a false perception of reality which they consider real. Only God can know reality.

Yes, I agree. It may even be there is no objective reality, simply (or not so simply) a composite of subjective realities, of which G-d knows every one.

 

[GEddie]

Can we ever even be sure what any mind other than our own means by the word “reality”?

Is the question even worth asking?

ICXC NIKA

 

[Michael_Mayo]

It comes down to knowing God and self, doesn’t it?

 

[Robert_Sock]

Can we ever even be sure what any mind other than our own means by the word “reality”?

Is the question even worth asking?

ICXC NIKA

It can be efficacious in our spiritual life by taking close note of the fact. It’s like a jungle out there, and that’s as far as we can see. Becoming keenly aware that there are probably much higher forms of reality is humbling and it can direct our spirituality. This is not how life was intended by God, but we are in exile, and it’s worth the effort to ponder this.

 

[GEddie]

It can be efficacious in our spiritual life by taking close note of the fact. It’s like a jungle out there, and that’s as far as we can see. Becoming keenly aware that there are probably much higher forms of reality is humbling and it can direct our spirituality. This is not how life was intended by God, but we are in exile, and it’s worth the effort to ponder this.

If all we have is “probably,” then we can safely ignore such issues IMNAAHO and get on with the business of living our human life as best we can.

ICXC NIKA

 

[ynotzap]

I don’t think God left us without an anchor in our knowledge, that which is, and that which isn’t. We can know the truth in this life, even though it is limited, and we are led by the truth in what we know. There is natural truth, and supernatural truth. God has verified both for us, in science and our Christian Faith, if we truly live our Faith. He confirms for us many times what we believe. Even though He doesn’t confirm everything that we believe. Science has confirmed for us those things we find in our material world, even though there are many things we still don’t know, or fully understand, but there is objective truth. After all our knowledge comes from outside of our minds, before we can even have a subjective reality. One can experience the truths of the Faith, by stepping out based on the teachings of Christ and the Church, one can experience for himself the confirmation of these truths. God did not leave us floundering, we have the strength and guidance of our convictions, the more we apply this strength, the stronger our conviction become, and the stronger our confirmation and knowledge of truth.

 

[yppop]

I think of reality as coming in layers. with each successive layer taking on a qualitatively different meaning. But I do not believe that anybody should deceive themselves as though they have a good grasp of reality!

People are addicted to a false perception of reality which they consider real. Only God can know reality.

Robert
I may be deceiving myself but I am feeling good watching the Pope renew the image of the Catholic Church. So here is what I think about reality:

*- There are four modalities of reality: objective, subjective, rational, and transcendental

• Objective reality consists of the physical entities, namely: all the matter, energy, time, and space that comprise our universe. Objective reality consists of: (1) the changing configuration of electrons and quarks that exist as matter and is manifested as ponderable energy; (2) the changing configurations of space that is manifested as radiant energy. Space and matter are static elements; the incremental change of the static elements is manifested as energy and time, the dynamic elements.
• Subjective reality consists of the percepts, qualia, feelings, and emotions that sentient creatures experience. Most of what we perceive and sense exists within our minds. Most metazoan creatures experience, at the minimum, a semblance of subjective reality.
• Rational reality consists of the signals and symbols, and solely in the case of humans: words, thoughts, numbers, notes, logic, and language and their associated meanings. Unlike subjective reality, rational reality is communicative in that it forms a repository of shared knowledge, a so-called noosphere.
• Transcendental reality consists of intellectual sensations that only humans can experience but cannot explain such as justice, beauty, love, and truth. Transcendental reality has the characteristic of combining other modalities of reality, hence the human creation of art combines elements of objective, subjective and rational reality. Transcendental reality appeals to the human soul, multi-dimensionally on the other three levels.
• In order to explain how God creates and sustains reality, in addition to the four modalities of reality, we recognize that objective reality can be viewed at two levels of understanding: (1) the explicate view which we experience and science describes and (2) the implicate view of the ground of reality at which level God creates and sustains. Viewing reality at two levels has some important implications such as: (1) the view that “energy is an effect not a cause” and (2) the contention that, except for the dimensions of space and time, the variables of physics are abstractions.
• Taking an implicate and explicate view of reality allows us to separate religion’s view of reality from science’s view and allows me to describe what I believe to be a possible and plausible view of how God creates and sustains reality without rejecting science’s explicate view.*

This opinion has been written in the spirit of the marvelous encyclical “Fides et Ratio”.

Yppop

 

[mikekle]

Depends on what reality you are talking about, I always found it interesting the bible verse that talks about how the sky will roll up like a scroll at the second coming, I think the earthly reality we all see and experience every day is not actually real, instead its just an illusion, when that day comes and the sky rolls up (which I think will be incredible to witness), I think we will all see what is truly going on, it will be akin to seeing ‘behind the scenes’ in a play, we will see how everything works, and who is influencing/ controlling it all, similar to a puppet master pulling strings.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Depends on what reality you are talking about, I always found it interesting the bible verse that talks about how the sky will roll up like a scroll at the second coming, I think the earthly reality we all see and experience every day is not actually real, instead its just an illusion, when that day comes and the sky rolls up (which I think will be incredible to witness), I think we will all see what is truly going on, it will be akin to seeing ‘behind the scenes’ in a play, we will see how everything works, and who is influencing/ controlling it all, similar to a puppet master pulling strings.

Yes, I believe a new layer of reality is on the horizon, and that this new layer of reality will set many of us free by defying earthly science.

 

[Richca]

I think of reality as coming in layers. with each successive layer taking on a qualitatively different meaning. But I do not believe that anybody should deceive themselves as though they have a good grasp of reality!

People are addicted to a false perception of reality which they consider real. Only God can know reality.

The world I see with my eyes, the earth and the plants and animals on it, the moon, the sun, and the stars in the sky look very real to me and they are real as Holy Scripture and our faith teaches us that all is the creation of God.

 

[Robert_Sock]

The world I see with my eyes, the earth and the plants and animals on it, the moon, the sun, and the stars in the sky look very real to me and they are real as Holy Scripture and our faith teaches us that all is the creation of God.

O Jesus, Thou hast set me apart from the world; what, then, shall I seek therein? Thou hast created me for Heaven; what, then, have I to do with the world? Depart from me, deceitful world, with thy vanities! Henceforth i will follow the Way of the Cross traced out for me by my Redeemer, and journey onward to my heavenly home, there to dwell forever and ever.
–Saint Francis of Assisi.

There are 1001 other sacred quotes that I could choose. Many of the great saints warned against being worldly, as did Christ.

 

[mikekle]

I once a heard a good analogy about reality from someone, It really made me think…

Think about life that lives in rivers, oceans, lakes, fish and other such animals, the ONLY ‘world/ reality’ they know is underwater, they have NO clue what exists just above the water or beyond their body of water, yet existing all around them, is our world, with cities, roads, planets, universe, etc.!! Even if they did see our world, they would not understand it, likewise, we are the same, Our view of ‘reality’ is likely limited like this as well, we would probably be floored at what else exists.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I once a heard a good analogy about reality from someone, It really made me think…

Think about life that lives in rivers, oceans, lakes, fish and other such animals, the ONLY ‘world/ reality’ they know is underwater, they have NO clue what exists just above the water or beyond their body of water, yet existing all around them, is our world, with cities, roads, planets, universe, etc.!! Even if they did see our world, they would not understand it, likewise, we are the same, Our view of ‘reality’ is likely limited like this as well, we would probably be floored at what else exists.

Knowing that we live in a dark reality is paramount in living a righteous life. People who live believing that our world is reality is deceiving themselves. People who think that they can grasp reality through reading and the mass media are fooling themselves.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Knowing that we live in a dark reality is paramount in living a righteous life. People who live believing that our world is reality is deceiving themselves. People who think that they can grasp reality through reading and the mass media are fooling themselves.

I wouldn’t go so far as calling our reality dark. Our reality is wonderful, full of life and limitless possibilities. So far, we’ve spent the last 10,000 years exploring one planet, in one solar system, in one tiny part of one of the millions of galaxies in our universe. There is so much out there for us to discover, to explore, and to learn; and I think God gave that to us as a gift; a small taste of the wonders that await us after the Resurrection.

This reality is real, it is our reality, and it is important to us. We must learn about it because everything we know about it tells us something about the one who created it. We can learn about it through study, observation, and honest reflection. I agree, we can’t look to the media, or really even to our educational system, to teach us about reality any more, but that doesn’t mean is has become unknowable, it only means that we have to work harder and be more discerning in our efforts.

God created our reality, and our reality is essentially good. We’ve certainly created a lot of evil within it, but that doesn’t change the fundamental nature of creation. God is also rational and ordered, which means that reality, as a reflection of His will, is also rational and ordered. This means that it is knowable. We’ll never know everything this side of eternity, this universe is simply too vast for that amount of knowledge to ever be full understood; but that doesn’t make the pursuit meaningless or impossible; it just means that there will always be something new to discover!

 

[Robert_Sock]

I wouldn’t go so far as calling our reality dark. Our reality is wonderful, full of life and limitless possibilities. So far, we’ve spent the last 10,000 years exploring one planet, in one solar system, in one tiny part of one of the millions of galaxies in our universe. There is so much out there for us to discover, to explore, and to learn; and I think God gave that to us as a gift; a small taste of the wonders that await us after the Resurrection.

This reality is real, it is our reality, and it is important to us. We must learn about it because everything we know about it tells us something about the one who created it. We can learn about it through study, observation, and honest reflection. I agree, we can’t look to the media, or really even to our educational system, to teach us about reality any more, but that doesn’t mean is has become unknowable, it only means that we have to work harder and be more discerning in our efforts.

God created our reality, and our reality is essentially good. We’ve certainly created a lot of evil within it, but that doesn’t change the fundamental nature of creation. God is also rational and ordered, which means that reality, as a reflection of His will, is also rational and ordered. This means that it is knowable. We’ll never know everything this side of eternity, this universe is simply too vast for that amount of knowledge to ever be full understood; but that doesn’t make the pursuit meaningless or impossible; it just means that there will always be something new to discover!

What I’m suggesting is that we live as an outer layer of reality and we need to keep digging to get at the its core. Again, these deeper forms of reality are much more profound and makes the outer layers trivial. We should always live in awe, knowing that there exists deeper realities that we cannot yet perceive.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

What I’m suggesting is that we live as an outer layer of reality and we need to keep digging to get at the its core. Again, these deeper forms of reality are much more profound and makes the outer layers trivial. We should always live in awe, knowing that there exists deeper realities that we cannot yet perceive.

Ah, I misunderstood your post. Apologies ^^

I agree, reality is far more than we “know” it to be. I still think it is knowable, but yeah, we still have a lot left to discover.

 

[Richca]

O Jesus, Thou hast set me apart from the world; what, then, shall I seek therein? Thou hast created me for Heaven; what, then, have I to do with the world? Depart from me, deceitful world, with thy vanities! Henceforth i will follow the Way of the Cross traced out for me by my Redeemer, and journey onward to my heavenly home, there to dwell forever and ever.
–Saint Francis of Assisi.

There are 1001 other sacred quotes that I could choose. Many of the great saints warned against being worldly, as did Christ.

“In the beginning God created heaven and earth…” (Genesis 1:1). The creation of the world by God and everything in it is a central truth of the catholic faith and of the Bible.