Can sinful thoughts continue without consent?

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When I have one or more sinful thoughts and eventually get rid of them, at times I’m not sure if I gave consent to them or not. I understand that sin requires consent. But lately it seems that even if I try to rid my mind of a bad or sinful thought for some reason it continues for a short amount of time (or possibly longer), but I don’t *feel *that I gave consent to the thought.
Basically, even though I try to get rid of the thought it still continues, then I suspect that I actually did give consent because I failed to banish the thought from my mind at once. This even happened during prayer. If I tried to rid the thoughts from my head but they somehow continued, did I give consent?
Also, if a person succeeds in ridding themselves from the sinful thought but in a short amount of time or even a matter of seconds, the same (or same kind of) thought returns to their mind, was that consent?
What are ways in which a person could tell if they’ve given consent to a sinful or impure thought or not? Any specific questions they could ask themselves to determine if they did or not?
Any information involved with impure of sinful thoughts actually being sins, what to do when you have them and overcoming them would be appreciated.
Also, maybe I need longer explanation of what’s actually required for a sinful thought to be actually sinful.
 
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PMV:
When I have one or more sinful thoughts and eventually get rid of them, at times I’m not sure if I gave consent to them or not. I understand that sin requires consent. But lately it seems that even if I try to rid my mind of a bad or sinful thought for some reason it continues for a short amount of time (or possibly longer), but I don’t *feel *that I gave consent to the thought.
Basically, even though I try to get rid of the thought it still continues, then I suspect that I actually did give consent because I failed to banish the thought from my mind at once. This even happened during prayer. If I tried to rid the thoughts from my head but they somehow continued, did I give consent?
Also, if a person succeeds in ridding themselves from the sinful thought but in a short amount of time or even a matter of seconds, the same (or same kind of) thought returns to their mind, was that consent?
What are ways in which a person could tell if they’ve given consent to a sinful or impure thought or not? Any specific questions they could ask themselves to determine if they did or not?
Any information involved with impure of sinful thoughts actually being sins, what to do when you have them and overcoming them would be appreciated.
Also, maybe I need longer explanation of what’s actually required for a sinful thought to be actually sinful.
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It only becomes a sin when you will the act that your are thinking about. Length of time that it reamins bouncing from synapse to synapse is not a factor of culpability.

What I am hearing is that you may be dealing with a bit of scrupulosity or maybe a minor obsessive disorder. The best way to combat all of these problems including the sinnful thoughts is to practice corporeal works of mercy. So, in other words instead of being turned in on yourself change your focus to helping others. When this is done it staves off a majority of such issues.
 
You mean it’s not a sin unless, for instance, when a person has an impure thought he/she purposely enjoys the thought?
 
It is interesting that I JUST posted a remark in the Book Club about the book we are reading and reflecting (The Imitation of Christ).

Here is the chapter that may be of use to you.
 
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PMV:
When I have one or more sinful thoughts and eventually get rid of them, at times I’m not sure if I gave consent to them or not. I understand that sin requires consent. But lately it seems that even if I try to rid my mind of a bad or sinful thought for some reason it continues for a short amount of time (or possibly longer), but I don’t *feel *that I gave consent to the thought.
Basically, even though I try to get rid of the thought it still continues, then I suspect that I actually did give consent because I failed to banish the thought from my mind at once. This even happened during prayer. If I tried to rid the thoughts from my head but they somehow continued, did I give consent?
Also, if a person succeeds in ridding themselves from the sinful thought but in a short amount of time or even a matter of seconds, the same (or same kind of) thought returns to their mind, was that consent?
What are ways in which a person could tell if they’ve given consent to a sinful or impure thought or not? Any specific questions they could ask themselves to determine if they did or not?
Any information involved with impure of sinful thoughts actually being sins, what to do when you have them and overcoming them would be appreciated.
Also, maybe I need longer explanation of what’s actually required for a sinful thought to be actually sinful.
Click to expand...
Here is where sin occurs in my opinion. Do you purposely place yourself in or fail to avoid situations that bring about sinful thoughts? For example if you go watch an R movie that you know has strong sexual content you are responsible for thoughts that arise from viewing it. Are you being careful on the internet, in the things you read, shows you watch, people you associate with? If you ask God to help you avoid such situations, and earnestly endeavor to do so, I am confident he will help you prevail. And without fuel to feed them I am am confident your sinful thoughts will become greatly reduced and managable. After all the Bible teaches we will not be tempted beyond what we can handle. 👍 Also when sinful thought occurs you do have control over wether you dwell on them or move on, and for heaven’s sake move on!

God Bless, I will pray for you. Please pray for me as well because I have the same problem and have been hesitant to give up things that cause such thoughts.
 
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PMV:
You mean it’s not a sin unless, for instance, when a person has an impure thought he/she purposely enjoys the thought?
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No, it is if the person deliberately entertains the thought. For something to be a sin it must be willed directly. So, as long as you do not consent to the thought then it is not a sin.
 
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PMV:
When I have one or more sinful thoughts and eventually get rid of them, at times I’m not sure if I gave consent to them or not. I understand that sin requires consent. But lately it seems that even if I try to rid my mind of a bad or sinful thought for some reason it continues for a short amount of time (or possibly longer), but I don’t *feel *that I gave consent to the thought.
Basically, even though I try to get rid of the thought it still continues, then I suspect that I actually did give consent because I failed to banish the thought from my mind at once. This even happened during prayer. If I tried to rid the thoughts from my head but they somehow continued, did I give consent?
Also, if a person succeeds in ridding themselves from the sinful thought but in a short amount of time or even a matter of seconds, the same (or same kind of) thought returns to their mind, was that consent?
What are ways in which a person could tell if they’ve given consent to a sinful or impure thought or not? Any specific questions they could ask themselves to determine if they did or not?
Any information involved with impure of sinful thoughts actually being sins, what to do when you have them and overcoming them would be appreciated.
Also, maybe I need longer explanation of what’s actually required for a sinful thought to be actually sinful.
Click to expand...
If you believe, within yourself, that sinful thoughts are occurring without your participation (and please don’t judge yourself too harshly), you probably have “other issues” to work on.

You’re probably either neurotic because you have bad underlying ideation respecting some idea, or you are suffering from what is referred to as “demonic obsession.”

Again, don’t judge yourself too harshly – in either case.

Neuroses are usually fault-driven – because of dedicated insecirity, somewhere in your thinking you’re hugging a bad attitude like a baby hugging a security blanket. Pray to God for the wisdom and strength to hunt down the bad thinking, and then hunt it down and cast it aside. In the process, seek to make yourself “God’s gentle Christian servant.” If you’re not there, then you still have a problem somewhere in your thinking.

Respecting demonic obsession, that usually arises from a long course of habitual sin – people-destroying anger or nagging, or habitual sex sin, or habitual drug use, and other such bad habits.

The cure to demonic obsession is simple: Pray, make soul-baring confessions, make frequent use of the Eucharist, pray, make soul-baring confessions, make frequent use of the Eucharist, pray, and so on.

Oh, did I mention “pray”?

The idea is this: If your thoughts are because you’ve generated an evil “presence” in your life by a prior long course of bad behavior, wholesomely dedicating your mental and emotional and physical self to pursuit of God through prayer and the sacraments will make you painfully intolerable to the “presence” harassing you, and it will leave. If you ask God for evidence of its departure, He will let you hear it.

Notice that the goal of this “course of treatment” is the same as the other: To make yourself “God’s gentle Christian servant.”

Good luck, friend.
 
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Vincent1560:
Here is where sin occurs in my opinion. Do you purposely place yourself in or fail to avoid situations that bring about sinful thoughts? For example if you go watch an R movie that you know has strong sexual content you are responsible for thoughts that arise from viewing it. Are you being careful on the internet, in the things you read, shows you watch, people you associate with? If you ask God to help you avoid such situations, and earnestly endeavor to do so, I am confident he will help you prevail. And without fuel to feed them I am am confident your sinful thoughts will become greatly reduced and managable. After all the Bible teaches we will not be tempted beyond what we can handle. 👍 Also when sinful thought occurs you do have control over wether you dwell on them or move on, and for heaven’s sake move on!

God Bless, I will pray for you. Please pray for me as well because I have the same problem and have been hesitant to give up things that cause such thoughts.
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This is not 100 per cent true. Sometimes you will dwell on an evil thought and NOT be culpable especially in the case of mental illness. Furthermore the ruminating and obsession can be totally focused on judging whether you have sinned and so despite a good intention you may be allowing the evil thoughts back in your mind. This is a very tricky matter and for the scrupulous it is no less than hell
 
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mosher:
No, it is if the person deliberately entertains the thought. For something to be a sin it must be willed directly. So, as long as you do not consent to the thought then it is not a sin.
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Also your body may be ‘enjoying the thought’ and the will is rejecting the thought or at least wavering in a state of fearful doubt. In these moments trust in the mercy of God and try to move on
 
When Jesus was in the desert, he must have thought about what Satan said to be able to say no. But he did not direct it (as mentioned below).

God bless,
Aaron
 
John of Woking:
This is not 100 per cent true. Sometimes you will dwell on an evil thought and NOT be culpable especially in the case of mental illness. Furthermore the ruminating and obsession can be totally focused on judging whether you have sinned and so despite a good intention you may be allowing the evil thoughts back in your mind. This is a very tricky matter and for the scrupulous it is no less than hell
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I agree, the mentally ill (by definition) are not culpable provided they lack the ability not to dwell on sinful thoughts. I am referring to those who are mentally fit and therefore can choose wether to dwell on impure thoughts so as to derive enjoyment from them. However if a mentally ill person was functional enough to realise that they had an instability, they might have a moral obligation to seek help. And obsessing is never good, pray and trust in God’s grace.
**
1st John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”**
 
Sorry I brought this topic back up. Lately when I have impure thoughts and fail to get them out of my mind, they remain there and I feel guilty for failing to banish them from my mind at once. Almost every time this happens I try to make an Act of Perfect Contrition to once again be in a state of grace and hopefully successfully banish the thoughts next time they pop up, but it seems like I fail often at ridding myself from the thought once it arrives.
This is very complicated for me, because I find myself losing grace so many times because of a mortal sin (which are these thoughts) so simple and easy for me to commit.
I feel tormented by Satan and his fallen angels; it’s as if they like to jump into my mind and have me fail to rid myself of the thoughts they give me.
I do not believe I’m even putting myself in situations that give me these thoughts; they happen commonly in descent enviornments.
I know that sounds a little crazy, but that’s how it seems. This is the sin I probably MOSTLY struggle with right now. Sometimes even when I pray these horrible impure thoughts (and possibly worse ones) come to mind, and I feel guilty that I failed to rid myself from them. I kind of question now whether those prayers even mattered to God.
But it gets worse…sometimes when I have an impure thought that’s **VERY **unnatural, I find myself “deliberately” trying to finish off my “last” mortal sin with a *natural *impure thought.
Maybe this is a case of scruples, or I’m just misunderstood.
I understand that sin requires consent, but for some reason I really struggle with this.
By the way, sorry I haven’t adressed this already, but I’m a 16 year old male and a Junior in High School.
 
Sometimes even when I pray these horrible impure thoughts (and possibly worse ones) come to mind, and I feel guilty that I failed to rid myself from them. I kind of question now whether those prayers even mattered to God.
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Your prayers certainly mattered to God. I don’t know if you find this to be a particular trouble when you pray, but if you do, what follows might help you.

You’re not alone in this struggle. St. John of the Cross wrote that it is not uncommon for impure thoughts to plague us when we pray:

"For it often comes to pass that, in their very spiritual exercises, when they are powerless to prevent it, there arise and assert themselves in the sensual part of the soul impure acts and motions, and sometimes this happens even when the spirit is deep in prayer, or engaged in the Sacrament of Penance or in the Eucharist. These things are not, as I say, in their power; they proceed from one of three causes.
2. The first cause from which they often proceed is the pleasure which human nature takes in spiritual things. For when the spirit and the sense are pleased, every part of a man is moved by that pleasure to delight according to its proportion and nature. For then the spirit, which is the higher part, is moved to pleasure and delight in God; and the sensual nature, which is the lower part, is moved to pleasure and delight of the senses, because it cannot possess and lay hold upon aught else, and it therefore lays hold upon that which comes nearest to itself, which is the impure and sensual. Thus it comes to pass that the soul is in deep prayer with God according to the spirit, and, on the other hand, according to sense it is passively conscious, not without great displeasure, of rebellions and motions and acts of the senses, which often happens in Communion…
3. The second cause whence these rebellions sometimes proceed is the devil, who, in order to disquiet and disturb the soul, at times when it is at prayer or is striving to pray, contrives to stir up these motions of impurity in its nature; and if the soul gives heed to any of these, they cause it great harm. For through fear of these not only do persons become lax in prayer—which is the aim of the devil when he begins to strive with them—but some give up prayer altogether, because they think that these things attack them more during that exercise than apart from it, which is true, since the devil attacks them then more than at other times, so that they may give up spiritual exercises. And not only so, but he succeeds in portraying to them very vividly things that are most foul and impure, and at times are very closely related to certain spiritual things and persons that are of profit to their souls, in order to terrify them and make them fearful; so that those who are affected by this dare not even look at anything or meditate upon anything, because they immediately encounter this temptation. And upon those who are inclined to melancholy this acts with such effect that they become greatly to be pitied since they are suffering so sadly; for this trial reaches such a point in certain persons, when they have this evil humour, that they believe it to be clear that the devil is ever present with them and that they have no power to prevent this, although some of these persons can prevent his attack by dint of great effort and labour. When these impurities attack such souls through the medium of melancholy, they are not as a rule freed from them until they have been cured of that kind of humour, unless the dark night has entered the soul, and rids them of all impurities, one after another.
4. The third source whence these impure motions are apt to proceed in order to make war upon the soul is often the fear which such persons have conceived for these impure representations and motions. Something that they see or say or think brings them to their mind, and this makes them afraid, so that they suffer from them through no fault of their own."

If thoughts enter your head unbidden, and you try to turn away from them, and you’re repulsed by them and want to be rid of them, it’s not your fault if they don’t go away immediately. Don’t give up. Keep struggling. God surely will reward your perserverance.
 
PMV,
Don’t be too concerned with sinful thoughts The very fact that they bother you convinces me that there is no sin involved on your part. I am not proud to admit it but when I was 16 my sinful thoughts contnued 24-7…no days off, no vacation…But stop and think a minute…are those sinful thoughts?..or is it God calling you to your vocation in life…To find a spouse you love and end up marring and having bunches of little pmv’s.
That is where I would place my attention … on my future spouse and what I will offer to them on our wedding night!
 
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PMV:
Sorry I brought this topic back up. Lately when I have impure thoughts and fail to get them out of my mind, they remain there and I feel guilty for failing to banish them from my mind at once. Almost every time this happens I try to make an Act of Perfect Contrition to once again be in a state of grace and hopefully successfully banish the thoughts next time they pop up, but it seems like I fail often at ridding myself from the thought once it arrives.
This is very complicated for me, because I find myself losing grace so many times because of a mortal sin (which are these thoughts) so simple and easy for me to commit.
I feel tormented by Satan and his fallen angels; it’s as if they like to jump into my mind and have me fail to rid myself of the thoughts they give me.
I do not believe I’m even putting myself in situations that give me these thoughts; they happen commonly in descent enviornments.
I know that sounds a little crazy, but that’s how it seems. This is the sin I probably MOSTLY struggle with right now. Sometimes even when I pray these horrible impure thoughts (and possibly worse ones) come to mind, and I feel guilty that I failed to rid myself from them. I kind of question now whether those prayers even mattered to God.
But it gets worse…sometimes when I have an impure thought that’s **VERY **unnatural, I find myself “deliberately” trying to finish off my “last” mortal sin with a *natural *impure thought.
Maybe this is a case of scruples, or I’m just misunderstood.
I understand that sin requires consent, but for some reason I really struggle with this.
By the way, sorry I haven’t adressed this already, but I’m a 16 year old male and a Junior in High School.
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Dude…the more you try not to think about something, the more you can’t not think of it. It’s like trying to count how many times a minute you breathe without thinkng about breathing. The fact that you are a 16 year old male means that some those thoughts are, well, hormones gone wild. Give yourself a break. Stay away from porn. ALL men get impure thoughts from time to time. They tend to lesson for most of us as we mature. If I as a 40 something guy had impure thoughts at the same frequencey of a 16 year old, then I would have a problem. Strive to direct your energy and creativity into other areas. Enjoy your cold showers. Remember sin is in the will…not the thought.
 
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