Can someone debunk the 12 links of Dependent Origination?

[Ben_Sinner]

How does one prove that existence does not come out this way and such things like identity, consciousness, material objects, etc actually exist and are not just illusion created within this cycle?

The following are the 12 links:

Ignorance----Not knowing suffering, not knowing the origination of suffering, not knowing the cessation of suffering, not knowing the way of practice leading to the cessation of suffering: This is called ignorance. It leads to action, or constructing activities.

Leads to

Constructing activities----Any action, whether meritorious or harmful, and whether of body, speech or mind, creates karmic imprint on a being.This includes will and planning. It leads to transmigratory consciousness.

Leads to

Consciousness----These six are classes of consciousness: eye-consciousness, ear-consciousness, nose-consciousness, tongue-consciousness, body-consciousness, intellect-consciousness. This is called consciousness. As seen earlier,consciousness and the organ cannot function without each other.

Leads to

Name-and-Form----Feeling, perception, intention, contact, and attention: This is called name (i.e. mentality or mind). The four great elements, and the body dependent on the four great elements: This is called form (i.e. corporeality or body).

Leads to

Six Senses—The eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body and mind are the six sense media.

Leads to

Contact----The coming together of the object, the sense medium and the consciousness of that sense medium is called contact

Leads to

Craving----There are these six forms of cravings: cravings with respect to forms, sounds, smells, tastes, touch (massage, sex, pain), and ideas.

Leads to

Clinging—These four are clingings: sensual clinging, view clinging, practice clinging, and self clinging

Leads to

Becoming----These three are becoming: sensual becoming, form becoming, formless becoming

Leads to

Birth—Birth is any coming-to-be or coming-forth. It refers not just to birth at the beginning of a lifetime, but to birth as new person, acquisition of a new status or position etc.

Leads to

Ignorance…
…the circular cycle goes on.

 

[Vico]

How does one prove that existence does not come out this way and such things like identity, consciousness, material objects, etc actually exist and are not just illusion created within this cycle?

The following are the 12 links:

Ignorance----Not knowing suffering, not knowing the origination of suffering, not knowing the cessation of suffering, not knowing the way of practice leading to the cessation of suffering: This is called ignorance. It leads to action, or constructing activities.

Leads to

Constructing activities----Any action, whether meritorious or harmful, and whether of body, speech or mind, creates karmic imprint on a being.This includes will and planning. It leads to transmigratory consciousness.

Leads to

Consciousness----These six are classes of consciousness: eye-consciousness, ear-consciousness, nose-consciousness, tongue-consciousness, body-consciousness, intellect-consciousness. This is called consciousness. As seen earlier,consciousness and the organ cannot function without each other.

Leads to

Name-and-Form----Feeling, perception, intention, contact, and attention: This is called name (i.e. mentality or mind). The four great elements, and the body dependent on the four great elements: This is called form (i.e. corporeality or body).

Leads to

Six Senses—The eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body and mind are the six sense media.

Leads to

Contact----The coming together of the object, the sense medium and the consciousness of that sense medium is called contact

Leads to

Craving----There are these six forms of cravings: cravings with respect to forms, sounds, smells, tastes, touch (massage, sex, pain), and ideas.

Leads to

Clinging—These four are clingings: sensual clinging, view clinging, practice clinging, and self clinging

Leads to

Becoming----These three are becoming: sensual becoming, form becoming, formless becoming

Leads to

Birth—Birth is any coming-to-be or coming-forth. It refers not just to birth at the beginning of a lifetime, but to birth as new person, acquisition of a new status or position etc.

Leads to

Ignorance…
…the circular cycle goes on.

These is the Buddhist Nidanas of Dependent Arising. The list above is missing Feelings after Contact. It breaks down at Becoming, per Christian teaching since there is no rebirth of the person (soul plus body) rather one resurrection at the Parousia and for those that attain heaven there is the Beatific Vision. Can it be proven? Even arguing that souls remember nothing whatever of the events which took place in their previous states of existence would not be convincing. Buddha even states that a deities may be so old that they mistake themselves to be the creator, when there is no creator.

 

[Ben_Sinner]

Can someone explain to me the first for links as if I were a 3rd grader?

I don’t understand how Ignorance turns into people have 6 senses.

 

[rossum]

Can someone explain to me the first for links as if I were a 3rd grader?

I don’t understand how Ignorance turns into people have 6 senses.

Ignorance: People who are ignorant do not know how to act in their best interests…

Activities: They act unwisely, in ways that make them subject to rebirth.

Consciousness: When an ignorant, unenlightened, person dies, they are reborn with a new consciousness.

Name and Form: The newly reborn develops into a person with a body (Form) and non-material components (Name).

The first four links briefly describe the process of death and rebirth for the unenlightened.

HTH

rossum

 

[Vico]

Can someone explain to me the first for links as if I were a 3rd grader?

I don’t understand how Ignorance turns into people have 6 senses.

One can compare it to the development of a fetus where the nervous system and brain are sensory organs are growing and the cognitive ability to use them and form ideas occurs.

 

[Ben_Sinner]

Ignorance: People who are ignorant do not know how to act in their best interests…

Activities: They act unwisely, in ways that make them subject to rebirth.

Consciousness: When an ignorant, unenlightened, person dies, they are reborn with a new consciousness.

Name and Form: The newly reborn develops into a person with a body (Form) and non-material components (Name).

The first four links briefly describe the process of death and rebirth for the unenlightened.

HTH

rossum

Thanks rossum.