Can someone help me understand something?

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sebo3e

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Yeah i whould like to ask about something what i learned currently what i never before knew

and that was that murmuring grumbling complaining can be sin that s new for me what i learned i never even knew this was a sin yet its good that i learned so that i can fight this

alright could enyone please explain to me example of murmuring of course it can be silent you talk to yourself or it can be complaining etc

yet we must be aware we mumur correct or when we complain

yet where does here draw a line in murmuring and complaining that s first question

second question is murmuring and complaining venial sin or mortal or how can we understand what s what and i know if we are not aware we do it it can be venial yet again its good quesiton to understand

third question can you give me example of murmuring and complaining in action please?

for example if we talk how people are acting this and that
today complaining about the weather how bad it is
something doesnt work well
we are angry at someone because this and that
or saying how everything hurts by doing nothing about it or fix ourself

is that example of complaining?

thank you for reading when you read my questions and examples
please take your time with answering remember be quick to hear but slow to speak!
 
We are human beings. It is a human trait to gripe and complain about things.
But God gave us confession and absolution.
God is great!
 
I understand that s true yet could you please answer my question thanks you
 
sebo3e said:
murmuring
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For the sake of space, the entire section cannot be posted. I would suggest you read the entire section in the Catechism. Note that the term “murmuring” nor “complaining” appears anywhere in the Catechism.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a8.htm#2477

II. OFFENSES AGAINST TRUTH

2475 Christ’s disciples have "put on the new man, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness."274 By “putting away falsehood,” they are to "put away all malice and all guile and insincerity and envy and all slander."275

2476 False witness and perjury. When it is made publicly, a statement contrary to the truth takes on a particular gravity. In court it becomes false witness.276 When it is under oath, it is perjury. Acts such as these contribute to condemnation of the innocent, exoneration of the guilty, or the increased punishment of the accused.277 They gravely compromise the exercise of justice and the fairness of judicial decisions.

2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury.278 He becomes guilty:
  • of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
  • of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;279
  • of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.
2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.280
2479 Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one’s neighbor. Honor is the social witness given to human dignity, and everyone enjoys a natural right to the honor of his name and reputation and to respect. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity.
 
Thanks for the explanation yet i learned that murmuring is when we talk to our self and that can be sin and complaining when something we dont like and complain about stuff have you ever tough of that?

because i just learned new thing thanks to our lord for what i learned yet i whould like to know what to do to stop complain about life and what if and so on and stop murmuring
 
1 Thessalonians 5:18: In all things give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you all.

From the Mass: It is truly right and just, our duty and salvation always and everywhere to give You thanks…

Complaining, grumbling, murmuring, all are contrary to the gratitude we should give to God.

How to quit doing this? First consider that for most of us, “quitting” will be a life-long learning process 😉

Second, many find that going towards something is better than running away from something. It helps to have a goal other than stopping the bad habit, to instead become someone better. So rather than quit smoking, smokers are advised to become (everything good they see about not smoking, like healthy, cleaner smelling, slightly richer…) non-smokers.

So aim for thanking God in all circumstances, yes, even the worst one!, and each time you are tempted to or find yourself complaining, start thanking and praising God instead. Become a praiser of God rather than a grumbler.
 
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How about a prayer.

I give you glory God because it is right and just.

I praise you Jesus in all things.

And I thank you, knowing in faith, you will bestow upon me spiritual blessings for accepting these sufferings that I cannot abate by good and just means.

We offer up our sufferings to God by trusting in His divine will, that the sufferings He allows us to endure, when united to His Son’s suffering on the cross, are occasions for our own good.

Romans 8:28
“We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.”

John
 
That s great idea thanks to our lord for the advice it really helps i appreciate it
 
I understand well you know i had this issue for an long time when i started using what if this happens what if that happens and so on you know stressfull situations that s why i asked this because i

was like wow i never knew this was sin to complain how life is bad or complaing how that and this happens murmuring about stuff to yourself afther talking to another person and so on did you get me i mean? yet this can help
 
Here s example if someone told me bad thing to me and something both person cant handle but i still stay silent but start murmuring how

i am this and that and not appreicate behavior or negative thinking grumbling to my self how this and that bothers me this is what we call sin in mind then there s other stuff to
 
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I can’t imagine murmuring, grumbling or complaining in itself is sinful. It the words and thoughts that potentially could be. Be charitable in your words, thoughts and deeds and you’ll be fine.
 
sebo3e said:
yet i learned that murmuring is when we talk to our self and that can be sin and complaining when something we dont like and complain about stuff have you ever tough of that?
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Actually, murmuring is when one talks to oneself in such a way that others can overhear and then be moved to join in a kind of “mob spirit” murmuring. When enough people murmur and grumble together the situation is prime for a mob instigator to call them out in open revolt as a mob.

The murmurer wants to be heard, but also wants to be able to evade blame for complaining by falsely claiming, “I was only talking to myself; you are being too touchy in trying to listen to my self-vocalized words.”

The complainer goes directly to the person who is being complained against and voices the objection. There is no secret agenda.

When Israel was delivered from Egypt by Moses, there was murmuring among the people so each other could overhear the disdain about not having water, not having bread, not having meat, and wandering about without getting out of the desert. They wanted each other to hear, just like in political rallies today the people want each other to fan their flames of discontent as they murmur about the sad state of things. Finally, when enough people shared the murmuring, the “mob” was formed and stood up against Moses multiple times.

Murmuring would be, I think, a grave matter, since it is similar in content to sloth, where there is disdain for doing the will of God because it is too difficult, and a voicing of the problem that is too much to bear or tackle. The opposite virtue would be like the patience that someone obeying Jeremiah would have by remaining in Babylon without trying to escape (the chapters around chpt 29 of Jeremiah) but instead wait 70 years for the LORD to deliver them (wait your whole life and die waiting, yet knowing you would be delivered even after dying).
 
Thats interesting i learned something new today
also do you maybe know how can i stop my self from murmuring

should i rather away give to our lord if i notice sometimes i am not aware since my mind goes by itself or i talk how can i deal with this situation do you maybe know?
 
It’s the negativity that’s potentially sinful, not the mere act of talking to yourself.
 
sebo3e said:
do you maybe know how can i stop my self from murmuring

should i rather away give to our lord if i notice sometimes i am not aware since my mind goes by itself or i talk how can i deal with this situation do you maybe know?
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You are describing in yourself what St. Paul calls “the mind of the flesh” in his letter to the Romans. And he also give the “cure” in Chapter 13, which St. Augustine found and discussed in his “Confessions” in the section on his conversion. (this cure is not just in Chapter 13, but throughout the letter, with a clear summary at the end of 13)

The mind of the flesh is that thinking and imagining and visualizing and doing that “automatically” seems to happen whenever there is some appetite we have, whether an appetite for something pleasurable or an appetite for the defeat of something miserable or painful.

Murmuring is semi-audible activities / words coming out of your “flesh” (out of your thoughts and mouth) with a fantasy that it will somehow have an effect on whatever is being distasteful to you.
This is what Paul calls “the forethought of the flesh into lust”, or more clearly stated in our language he would be saying “the flesh’s forethought or imagination of what will enable appetite satisfaction”.
If I have an appetite for ice cream, my “flesh’s forethought” is “imagining driving to the store, finding the icecream, paying for it, driving home, and finding a spoon.” Then, when I do it, I am entering into the temptation, becoming a part of it. Temptations come, but we do not want to “enter INTO them”, do not want to become united to what is being tempted.

We also, being baptized and confirmed Catholics, have the fullness of the Holy Spirit, and as a result, we have “the mind of the Spirit” which is the enemy of the mind of the flesh.
We have now the ability to see what is true because the Spirit is like a light infusing our souls, our intellect and will, with light, with virtue.

For Augustine, he stopped imagining how to make his appetites come true. And instead he began looking at how he could do his doings virtuously. If I stop imagining driving to the store, then my flesh will not drive to the store - it does whatever I envision it doing, as a good servant, and then it will not eat the ice cream.
If you stop visualizing “getting even” or “having the last word”, then your flesh, your mouth will not say what you are not fantasizing about.

Look up what virtues the Holy Spirit has given you and start trying them out. Your replies on the post seem very “virtuous”, kind and considerate: you know how to do it and I am sure you visualize what you intend to say before you write: that is the mind of the spirit - use it all day long.
 
UpUpAndAway said:
It’s the negativity that’s potentially sinful, not the mere act of talking to yourself.
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Right. Talking to yourself is not a sin.

It’s like if I was having an argument with my wife, and I go off into the other room and start muttering bad things to myself about my wife as a passive-aggressive sort of thing.
 
Its okay to talk to yourself positive things and how you want to do your best with our lord? mumbling
 
Try approaching from the positive end. We are called to be witnesses of God’s love. Have a positive effect on others. No one likes being around a negative person. Not mortal sin material unless carried to the extreme.
 
Well i am a bit confused about part where you mentionated not a mortal sin material unless carried to the extreme what does that mean? can you help me understand
its not sin or its just venial sin if i talk mumble when i talk with people?
 
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