Can the devil hear or know your thoughts?

[EMFrost]

I have a good friend with a beautiful faith, but sometimes says things that confuse me. At one point we were having a faith conversation and she mentioned to me “Oh don’t worry, the devil can’t hear your thoughts.” At first I thought, “That’s really good! He won’t know when I’m feeling weak then or take pleasure in my internal struggles” but for a number of reasons… I don’t understand how this can be true. I asked my Mom about it and she fussed a bit saying I was giving the devil the same power as God. Is thought reading one of those sacred things exclusive to God though?

This is my problem
My most extreme spiritual battles- where I am most tormented by evil and most vulnerable and most tempted and am up late into the night trying not to let the devil shatter my imperfect trust in God- are in my thoughts

Who have I been fighting if the devil can’t get in there?

Everyone has different temptations- my daily battle ground is my mind. So to say he’s not aware of what’s up there doesn’t make sense at all.

Sometimes bad “thoughts” come into my head: really dark, disturbing. I don’t will these ideas and they just pop in there with no warning. They resemble the thoughts I’m having but are harshly distorted and twisted. Just like someone heard what I thought and interpreted it in the worst or dirtiest possible way to upset me. They often also make me feel so ashamed or so frightened I want to cry.

I would beat myself up about it mentally and emotionally because I believed I must be controlling it somehow deep deep down without realizing.
I never figured out how to stop…
But then I was taught about the nature of temptation and that being tempted wasn’t actually a sin. I finally understood how the devil had been torturing me and that I’m not a bad person.

That’s what I thought this was: me being tempted by the devil.
But if my friend and Mom are right, what’s going on then?

Anybody have the truth on this matter? Please tell me if you do.

 

[HoneyBea]

I don’t know the answer but I get those thoughts too and they do feel shameful and are disturbing but I have realized that I’m not the only who gets those thoughts and I no longer give into the shame or allow it to keep me away from God (these thoughts always happen when I’m praying). I dont know the cause of them but I do know for many years they kept me away from God out of shame. They are less frequent now that I haven’t given into the fear of them. When they pop up I just acknowledge them, dismiss them and move on.

It looks like this question has been answered here. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=84552

 

[boomerang]

Many people believe that demons cannot know what you are thinking. Like HoneyBea said, even apologists think demons cannot know our thoughts. My opinion? They are dead wrong. Demons can not only know our thoughts, but they can influence our dreams, as God wills. I base my opinion on my own experiences. I have no doubt they can see into our thoughts. I remember reading about an exorcist who, as a kind of test, prayed *silently *in French during the preliminaries to the exorcism. The possessed victim whipped her head around and looked at him and said, “It’s no use praying in French, I understand that language, too!” This had the priest convinced that the devil indeed does know our thoughts, insofar as God lets him.

Don’t let the wicked ones trip you up. Rebuke them in Jesus’ name and pray for protection. Invoke St Michael. They will try to mess with your prayers, but they can’t snatch you from the Lord’s hand.

 

[Nelka]

The Devil cannot read you mind but he is extremely clever.

Do you know what to say and do to make your family and friends angry? Would you know what you could do to tempt them? The Devil has been around longer than you and has much experience.

God doesn’t allow you to be tempted beyond your means, that would be unfair and how could you be punished for something that was impossible for you to fight against.

Jesus Divine Mercy to St. Faustina:

1641 At adoration during the Forty-Hours’ Devotion, the Lord said to me, My daughter, write that involuntary offenses of souls do not hinder My love for them or prevent Me from uniting Myself with them. But voluntary offenses, even the smallest, obstruct My graces, and I cannot lavish My gifts on such souls.

 

[ServusHumilis]

Only God is allowed access to my thoughts.

 

[Dorothy]

The Devil cannot read you mind but he is extremely clever.

Do you know what to say and do to make your family and friends angry? Would you know what you could do to tempt them? The Devil has been around longer than you and has much experience.

God doesn’t allow you to be tempted beyond your means, that would be unfair and how could you be punished for something that was impossible for you to fight against.

Jesus Divine Mercy to St. Faustina:

1641 At adoration during the Forty-Hours’ Devotion, the Lord said to me, My daughter, write that involuntary offenses of souls do not hinder My love for them or prevent Me from uniting Myself with them. But voluntary offenses, even the smallest, obstruct My graces, and I cannot lavish My gifts on such souls.

Great post! The devil can read body language very well. With the grace of God we can develop a prayerful heart and be on guard.

 

[Kadaffi20]

The Devil cannot read you mind but he is extremely clever.

Do you know what to say and do to make your family and friends angry? Would you know what you could do to tempt them? The Devil has been around longer than you and has much experience.

God doesn’t allow you to be tempted beyond your means, that would be unfair and how could you be punished for something that was impossible for you to fight against.

Jesus Divine Mercy to St. Faustina:

1641 At adoration during the Forty-Hours’ Devotion, the Lord said to me, My daughter, write that involuntary offenses of souls do not hinder My love for them or prevent Me from uniting Myself with them. But voluntary offenses, even the smallest, obstruct My graces, and I cannot lavish My gifts on such souls.

Very good post, thank you for posting it.
I have read somewhere that the Devil can “come into” your imagination/fantasy and/or adding fantasy/imagination? Like if you imagine about something then he’ll be able to see that? I read this when I read the topic of the senses and sinses of the imagination. Maybe this would be the answer for EMFRost? Read about the sins of the imagination, very good.

 

[EMFrost]

HoneyBea, thanks for the compassion. I was kindof waiting for “Don’t be silly, of course he can’t read minds. How can you not understand this effortlessly?” not “I’m there with you, don’t be afraid.” I think that’s the first time I’ve gotten empathy from a soul.

I hope it’s not wrong to disagree with the apologist because I have the same understanding you do Boomerang. And I know body language can be quite revealing, you’re right about that Dorothy, and the devil is extremely clever and experienced like you said Nelka, but what kind of body language would indicate that the priest was silently praying in French?

Nelka you’re post is most helpful, you’ve read Screwtape too haven’t you? I just can’t fully understand it in my situation. Did St. Faustina struggle with these things too?
Do you know where the dogma is regarding the devil’s abilities because the statement of “he’s not God” isn’t really getting me any closer to understanding this. I could really use more information and good sources to turn towards.

I guess this get’s back to that question that used to torment me and is beginning to again. Am I responsible for all of this? Or is this the temptations of a devil so clever he can know my thoughts to such minute detail by observing me? If it’s just temptations then it’s not so hard to overcome the fear and shame. If it’s not… just- how am I doing this and how do I stop?

Kadaffi20 is there a difference between thoughts and imagination? If so then yes, much of the thoughts that get distorted are in the things I was imagining or envisioning. What are sins of the imagination and where is it that you said I can find information about them?

I am really grateful to ya’ll.

 

[boomerang]

Another thing to consider is: if the devil can’t gain access to our minds, then how does possession occur? The demon within makes the victim *act *bizarrely. There is no way that I can imagine how an entity like the devil can gain control over someone, in the case of possession, without entering the victim’s mind. How else could they be controlling that person’s behavior? So yes, the devil can read our minds *if *God wills it, and He wills these things to draw us closer to Him, to purify us and make us more holy and whatever other reason God chooses.

 

[SilverCamellia]

Today I have been reading The Rite by Matt Baglio, which I had seen recommended on this forum.

On page 43 of the 2009 edition, it says:

The Devil is also limited in his ability to know the secrets of the inner heart, a field strictly open to God, who is all-knowing, say theologians. However, according to exorcists, the Devil can tell what we are thinking by using his superior powers of observation, just as a physician might glean some information about a man’s health by checking his pulse.

Somewhere else in the book, I can’t find where, it recounted a priest performing an exorcism who prayed mentally in French in his mind; and the demon responded that they can understand all languages, so obviously ‘heard’ the mental prayer.

 

[SilverCamellia]

Another thing to consider is: if the devil can’t gain access to our minds, then how does possession occur? The demon within makes the victim *act *bizarrely. There is no way that I can imagine how an entity like the devil can gain control over someone, in the case of possession, without entering the victim’s mind. How else could they be controlling that person’s behavior? So yes, the devil can read our minds *if *God wills it, and He wills these things to draw us closer to Him, to purify us and make us more holy and whatever other reason God chooses.

Not sure if this quite answers your question, but in ‘The Rite’, by Matt Baglio, which I mentioned above, it says on page 47 to 48 of the 2009 edition:

In a demonic possession, the Devil takes temporary control of a person’s body, speaking and acting through it without a person’s knowledge. This control, however, doesn’t last indefinitely, but rather occurs only during ‘moments of crisis’ in which the victim enters a trance state. Generally speaking, the victim will not remember what transpired (rare individuals will be conscious during the ordeal and will remember…

During moments of crisis, the Devil can manifest in various ways: bodily contortions that defy rational explanation; unnatural strength; knowledge of hidden things; or ability to speak or understand foreign languages. In stronger cases, the demon will speak through the person, usually in an odd or unnatural voice that is full of rage and hatred…

It is important to note that in the case of demonic possession, say exorcists, the soul of the individual is not possessed, just the body. A great debate has raged among Christians about whether a person in a state of grace could also be possessed. According to the Catholic church, the answer is yes ( the lives of the saints bear witness to this) because the soul remains in a state of grace while the body ‘invites’ a possession to take place, such as during a satanic ritual. ‘In this case’, says one Italian exorcist,‘the presence in the soul is completed, which means that the will of the person completely identifies with the demon, having given himself completely to him. In that case the person becomes constantly possessed, and is like a demon walking on the earth.’

The book also says that possession is the rarest thing to occur, and generally people are inflicted more by ‘infestation’ which is 'the presence of demonic activity in a location or object, such as a ‘haunted house’ (p.45), ‘oppression’, which ‘often takes the form of mysterious blows raining down on the individual or scratches inexplicably materialising on the body’ and ‘obsession’, which is ‘an intense and persistent attack on the mind of the victim’ such as ‘random and obsessive thoughts that, although absurd, are so intense that the victim is unable to free him- or herself. Victims feel tormented by a fixation that completely dominated their thoughts’ (p.47).

Of course, believing one is afflicted by these things doesn’t mean that is the truth. It is mentioned in the book that those who believe they are subject to attack by demons generally aren’t, and that it’s those who don’t expect it that are.

 

[SilverCamellia]

Somewhere else in the book, I can’t find where, it recounted a priest performing an exorcism who prayed mentally in French in his mind; and the demon responded that they can understand all languages, so obviously ‘heard’ the mental prayer.

Found it. Page 106, 2009 edition.

In order to determine whether a girl was possessed, Father Nanni once said a prayer in his mind in French. The second he did this, even though the girl was sitting about ten feet away and with her back to him, her head spun around and her eyes rolled up, revealing the whites. Looking directly at him, she sneered in Italian, ‘It is useless that in pray in that language because we know them all’.

 

[EMFrost]

I forgot sometimes God gives permission, but I really hope He didn’t, even just talking about demonic stuff usually leads to some of the worst of the thoughts that persistantly torment my head.
Like that poor girl… ighl I hate demons.
I don’t know if I’ve gotten closer to God over this yet. If I have it’s because I’m continually clinging to Him like a little kid scared of the dark, but sometimes I don’t feel Him and I get more terrified than ever and that’s when I cry begging Him to send the evil thoughts away or just knock me out cold so I can rest undisturbed. (But that doesn’t always work, they also come in my nightmares)
Not that I should rely on feeling, but I continually will utter the name of Jesus or something an exorcist once told me to say, “Get behind me Satan, I cast thee to the foot of the cross”. My friends describe this flood of relief they feel having uttered these things knowing the evil that came near has left them. I don’t understand why I don’t feel the same. I’ve always heard demons can’t bear to hear the name of Christ or seeing the sign of the cross.
Maybe I’m just terrible at trusting, but sometimes it doesn’t work. Sometimes the bad images in my head get even… angrier and more disturbing.
Why wouldn’t it stop when I called on God? I know He’s there with me and is stronger than anything, but why wouldn’t it stop? Why does it get worse?

 

[boomerang]

I forgot sometimes God gives permission, but I really hope He didn’t, even just talking about demonic stuff usually leads to some of the worst of the thoughts that persistantly torment my head.
Like that poor girl… ighl I hate demons.
I don’t know if I’ve gotten closer to God over this yet. If I have it’s because I’m continually clinging to Him like a little kid scared of the dark, but sometimes I don’t feel Him and I get more terrified than ever and that’s when I cry begging Him to send the evil thoughts away or just knock me out cold so I can rest undisturbed. (But that doesn’t always work, they also come in my nightmares)
Not that I should rely on feeling, but I continually will utter the name of Jesus or something an exorcist once told me to say, “Get behind me Satan, I cast thee to the foot of the cross”. My friends describe this flood of relief they feel having uttered these things knowing the evil that came near has left them. I don’t understand why I don’t feel the same. I’ve always heard demons can’t bear to hear the name of Christ or seeing the sign of the cross.
Maybe I’m just terrible at trusting, but sometimes it doesn’t work. Sometimes the bad images in my head get even… angrier and more disturbing.
Why wouldn’t it stop when I called on God? I know He’s there with me and is stronger than anything, but why wouldn’t it stop? Why does it get worse?

Let’s assume it’s not demons. Have you ever taken your concerns to a physician? Maybe there’s something more medical going on. Anxiety can produce obsessive thoughts. And there’s something called “obsessive thought disorder” similar to obsessive-compulsive disorder.

 

[EMFrost]

No, I firmly believe my problem is spiritual.
I don’t think Obsessive thought disorder explains the frequent distortions of my varying thoughts. Some are more reoccurring than others, but temptations work like that too.

I’m not saying I never feel relief from the bad thoughts, but sometimes I don’t and it gets worse. I can’t much talk about it- the person listening either assumes the worst of me or I let the fear consume when I verbalize the occurrences (because they sound even more awful when I say them out loud). The latter happened here, I’m sorry about that.

I struggle with trust, and probably don’t realize how easy that makes it for the devil to read me. Sometimes I think I just annoy God when I cry or I don’t trust that I’ll withstand the temptation (even though I’d never dream doing the things that are suggested in the bad thoughts). The devil probably knows all of that (since I always react in fear) so he gives me every evil thought he can, knowing my doubt will make me petrified of every single one.

Then the idea of demons… don’t even go there! The thoughts that made me cry just last night had a lot to do with demons manifesting. The only relief I found was hugging a small Mary statue to my chest and begging her that if I saw something that night, it would be her face. I didn’t see anything so I think she answered.

 

[SilverCamellia]

If you really do feel this is spiritual, then talk with your priest. If you can’t tell him with words, write it down for him to read. A simple blessing might sort out your problems

 

[Dorothy]

If you really do feel this is spiritual, then talk with your priest. If you can’t tell him with words, write it down for him to read. A simple blessing might sort out your problems

I second that. I pray you find a holy priest who can help you. And take good care of your physical health as well.

 

[EMFrost]

A Blessing? I hope that’ll help, thanks for the suggestion.
I’ll write it too, I got a lot farther describing it on this forum by writing it out.

The only threat this is to my physical health is how much sleep I loose, not that I don’t need to address how much stress that’s putting on my body or head, but that’s the extent of any physical damage. 'Hope that helps ya’ll not worry about me.

I just want to know why the classic remedies to temptations or whatever you call this aren’t working. Maybe I just need an extra defense from a blessing since I’m admittedly vulnerable right now. If I could be left alone for just one moment so I could recognize God, I know I’d be okay.

Thanks again.