Can the devil (or demons) know your thoughts?

[MeghanEmber88]

Pretty straightforward questions…can they read your mind or just hear what you say?

Thanks!!!

No, they cannot. They can act upon the mind to suggest visions and temptations, but they cannot be certain what the person is thinking - they have existed for a long time, are not limited to time and space, and have seen many different approaches that human beings take toward them and their suggestions in the past. When they suggest something, because they “do not rest”, they form a much greater-chance theory (more than what humans are capable of) with regard to the response their suggestions may receive.

St. Thomas Aquinas addresses this in his Summa Theologiae. It is also addressed in The Life of Antony (St. Antony of Egypt, not St. Anthony of Padua - I used to get the two confused).

However, if a person asks the Lord to not allow them to hear what the person says, and trust that He will defend the conversation of prayer between Himself and the individual, then they are not capable of hearing what is said in prayer.

 

[MeghanEmber88]

Does the catechism even mention apologists? They aren’t even in Heaven!

It’s an interesting comment.

The Catechism does not address every topic in the entire human history. The most direct and trustworthy route is Scripture, reliable commentaries, and faith. So long as we keep our eyes focused on Christ and His ways, we’ll be fine. The apologists who died would be giving all the glory directly to Jesus for the merit He won for us in His Passion, Death, and Resurrection.

 

[Shin]

No, they cannot. They can act upon the mind to suggest visions and temptations, but they cannot be certain what the person is thinking - they have existed for a long time, are not limited to time and space, and have seen many different approaches that human beings take toward them and their suggestions in the past. When they suggest something, because they “do not rest”, they form a much greater-chance theory (more than what humans are capable of) with regard to the response their suggestions may receive.

St. Thomas Aquinas addresses this in his Summa Theologiae. It is also addressed in The Life of Antony (St. Antony of Egypt, not St. Anthony of Padua - I used to get the two confused).

However, if a person asks the Lord to not allow them to hear what the person says, and trust that He will defend the conversation of prayer between Himself and the individual, then they are not capable of hearing what is said in prayer.

Would you cite some quotes on that directly please?

 

[MeghanEmber88]

No, they cannot. They can act upon the mind to suggest visions and temptations, but they cannot be certain what the person is thinking - they have existed for a long time, are not limited to time and space, and have seen many different approaches that human beings take toward them and their suggestions in the past. When they suggest something, because they “do not rest”, they form a much greater-chance theory (more than what humans are capable of) with regard to the response their suggestions may receive.

St. Thomas Aquinas addresses this in his Summa Theologiae. It is also addressed in The Life of Antony (St. Antony of Egypt, not St. Anthony of Padua - I used to get the two confused).

However, if a person asks the Lord to not allow them to hear what the person says, and trust that He will defend the conversation of prayer between Himself and the individual, then they are not capable of hearing what is said in prayer.

I would like to add something…

I’m disturbed by all this talk about the devil and demons, and how so much of it is in the form of accusation of others, and most certainly is not centered directly on Christ.

The truth may not be something everyone wants to hear, but it is something that must be shared in the Charity of Peace, and from a meek and humble heart.

 

[MeghanEmber88]

Would you cite some quotes on that directly please?

Here is the online copy of the Summa Theologiae.
The “On the Contrary…,” “I Say That…,” and “Reply to Objection [insert number here]” are what he has reminded us of, relying first on Scripture as the foundation for his arguments.

newadvent.org/summa/1.htm

ST I, 50-64

All the best in Christ.

 

[Shin]

Here is the online copy of the Summa Theologiae.
The “On the Contrary…,” “I Say That…,” and “Reply to Objection [insert number here]” are what he has reminded us of, relying first on Scripture as the foundation for his arguments.

newadvent.org/summa/1.htm

ST I, 50-64

All the best in Christ.

That’s a very good quotation and it will take work on how to reconcile the different views expressed so far from the authorities.

It seems I spoke too quickly on some of this and the reasons why people came to those conclusions, I apologize.

That said, we do have a conflict here between different authorities.

But the conflict is not altogether irreconcilable.

 

[kage_ar]

Does the catechism even mention apologists? They aren’t even in Heaven!

I Peter 3:15 - we are called to be apologists directly from Scripture.

 

[Sunflower15]

I Peter 3:15 - we are called to be apologists directly from Scripture.

Are you saying that we are not called to be saints in Scripture? Or are you saying that the saints don’t defend the faith? Only apologists do?

Or are you saying that only Scripture tells us what we should do? Not Holy Tradition? The Holy Tradition from where Scriptures come from? The Holy Tradition that compile Scriptures? The saints are living Scriptures…aren’t they? Don’t they live the word of God? Isn’t that why they are saints?

At any rate-

All I meant is that it seems that saints are canonized for us to emulate or to consider them as role models, because what they did and said made them get to Heaven, and we see manifestation of that fact…[many other people go to Heaven, but we don’t know it because we don’t see miracles as manifestations].

However, apologists may know, may teach, may contradict each other, and may not make it to Heaven…

I ask you…which one will you rather follow IF your eternal life depended on it?

 

[MeghanEmber88]

That’s a very good quotation and it will take work on how to reconcile the different views expressed so far from the authorities.

It seems I spoke too quickly on some of this and the reasons why people came to those conclusions, I apologize.

That said, we do have a conflict here between different authorities.

But the conflict is not altogether irreconcilable.

That’s very humble of you.

I agree. But the Blessed Trinity is the first authority, and it has to be remembered that His way is the only true way.

That said, with regard to private revelations, and the one you posted from… St. Bernadette (?? if I remember correctly)… There is a lot that could be misinterpreted, but in that it remains true to Christ’s constancy in unconditional mercy and willingness to forgive ((even the hardest of sin’s slaves)), there is nothing to suggest to me that it isn’t “genuine.”

Peace in Christ.

 

[michaelgb]

I know that this is an old thread. I am new to the forum and was drawn by this topic.

The posts are very thoughtful.

I am not a scholar and can only speak from my own experience. Angels can “hear” our silent prayers. I have silently prayed to angels and had my prayer answered immediately. Angels are here to help us. It is a good idea to ask them directly.

Demons can definitely hear what we say out loud. Furthermore, I suspect that they can read our thoughts. They can either read our minds, or they are incredibly deductive and can accurately guess our thoughts and subsequent actions.

Why do you suspect demons can read our thoughts, how would you interpret 2 Chron. 6:30, and what do you make of this?

In the world of new technology, not much can rival a device that would read the human mind. Soon available to the public is such a device, Emotiv’s EPOC. While it currently targets video gaming, it might one day become an indispensable tool in other areas as well.

The device, a streamlined electroencephalographic (EEG) headset made up of 14 sensors, tunes into electric signals naturally produced by the brain. These signals are then interpreted as one of 30 programmed emotions, after the company carefully narrowed and mapped them out. Read More…
But deciphering these signals was no small task. In order to interpret them, the work of both neuroscientists and computer engineers specializing in machine learning and pattern recognition was needed.

Over the last four years, Emotiv recorded thousands of EEG on hundreds of volunteers. Not all gamers, their brain activity was monitored as they experienced virtual scenarios that evoked various emotions, facial expressions and cognitive reactions. About two years ago, the company set out to build algorithms to interpret the apparently chaotic impulses in the cerebral cortex and relate them to common emotions expressed by volunteers.

“Through a large enough sample size,” said Emotiv president Tan Le, to Scientific American, “we were able to get some consistency around the population to attain a high degree of confidence that it accurately measures an emotional state.”

The result: Emotiv’s EPOC can detect a player’s thoughts, feelings and expression, and connects wirelessly with all game platforms from consoles to PCs. Software development kits are available for game designers who would like to introduce this innovative new technology in their next generation games.

The device can currently be reserved (by US residents only) for purchase in the near future, at a cost of $299 USD. Emotiv is also sending a call out for beta testers of the neuro-headset in San Fransisco, California beginning next month.

While the company does play up the surprising functionality of the EPOC headset, a live demonstration at this year’s Game Developers’ Conference told a different story.

“The demo started off smoothly enough, as the headset wearer made a giant animated head on the screen mimic his real-life facial expressions,” wrote Tim Moynihan, of PC World. “But things went awry when the wearer was asked to make an on-screen object disappear, and again when the handlers from Emotiv tried to put EPOC through its paces in an actual game. The device didn’t do much of anything.”

Later on, relates Moynihan, Emotiv CEO Nam Do explained that the 2.4-GHz wireless audio visual system at the show interfered with the headset, while it had performed nicely at Emotiv’s booth. While this may be an acceptable excuse in this context, it may lead early adopters to reconsider the purchase if their home is riddled with wireless equipment.

To view a live (and overall successful) demo of Emotiv EPOC, see this Scientific American video.

Based in San Francisco and Sydney, Australia, Emotiv is also actively working with IBM to develop new applications for their technology for over a year. IBM believes that the EEG technology can be an important part of a broad range of virtual reality uses for industry, not just for games. Dave Kamalsky, project manager for virtual worlds research at IBM explains on Vroot.com, that about 5,000 people have already used a variety of VR (virtual reality) systems for company meetings. IBM is trying to raise awareness with businesses that some VR systems might be more appropriate for certain business users than others.

“As interactions in virtual environments become more complex, mice and keyboards alone may soon be inadequate,” said IBM vice-president of digital convergence division Paul Ledak. “BCI (brain-computer interfacing) is an important component of the 3D internet and the future of virtual communication,” he added in an interview with Australian media.

gamefwd.org/i…nology&Itemid=8

It does seem that if man can invent machines that can detect what a person is feeling, that spirits would be able to do the same–but then what of 2 Chron. 6:30?

 

[SeekerM]

It does seem that if man can invent machines that can detect what a person is feeling, that spirits would be able to do the same

Augustine and Aquinas thought so:

…thought is sometimes discovered not merely by outward act, but also by change of countenance; and doctors can tell some passions of the soul by the mere pulse. Much more then can angels, or even demons, the more deeply they penetrate those occult bodily modifications. Hence Augustine says (De divin. daemon.) that demons “sometimes with the greatest faculty learn man’s dispositions, not only when expressed by speech, but even when conceived in thought, when the soul expresses them by certain signs in the body”; although (Retract. ii, 30) he says “it cannot be asserted how this is done.”

Summa Theologica, Question 57, article 4.

but then what of 2 Chron. 6:30?

I think they would say that demons can only read some of the thoughts in our minds, and that only God can really know the innermost thoughts of our hearts.

At least that’s what I think Aquinas is saying here.

In another way thoughts can be known as they are in the mind, and affections as they are in the will: and thus God alone can know the thoughts of hearts and affections of wills.

Also from Summa Theologica, Question 57, article 4.

But what of 1 Corinthians 14:24-25?

But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

Doesn’t that kinda imply that only God knows what we’re thinking (and that Augustine and Aquinas must therefore have been wrong)?

 

[abdulmasih]

Ordinarily, Satan can’t read our thoughts. He can, however, sense with spiritual ears when anyone of us is planning sin.

Source: Revelations of Saint Bridget

 

[SeekerM]

St. Augustine:

And I cannot recall without stupefaction the fact that to a friend of ours, and a disciple of yours who wished to make fun of him in demanding insolently that he should tell him of what he was thinking in his mind, Albicerius replied that he was thinking of a line of Virgil. Amazed, the other could not deny it, but went on to ask what line it was. Albicerius, who scarcely ever had noticed even In passing the school of a grammarian, gave out the lines glibly without difficulty or hesitation…It is not strange that such things should come to our minds, considering that they can be perceived also by certain contemptible beings living in the air called ‘demons’ who may, I confess, be superior to us in precision and subtlety of the senses, but not, I hold, in reason. This kind of thing comes about in some mysterious way, a way entirely beyond our usual sense perception.

AGAINST THE ACADEMICS

So do passages like 1 Corinthians 14:24-25 prove that St. Augustine was wrong here (and that St. Aquinas was wrong in Summa Theologica)?

 

[SeekerM]

And this commentary on the above passage is from a Catholic commentator named Henry Christmas (M.A., F.R.S., F.S.A.)

This Albicerius was a scoundrel, as St. Augustine says, who calls him flagitiosum hominem. The knowledge which he had of hidden things was not, doubtless, a gift of heaven, any more than the Pythonic spirit which animated that maid in the Acts of the Apostles whom St. Paul obliged to keep silence.[268] It was then the work of the evil spirit.

The gift of tongues, the knowledge of the future, and power to divine the thoughts of others, are always adduced, and with reason, as solid proofs of the presence and inspiration of the Holy Spirit; but if the demon can sometimes perform the same things, he does it to mislead and induce sin, or simply to render true prophecies doubtful; but never to lead to truth, the fear and love of God, and the edification of those around.

The Phantom World.

Again, do passages like 2 Chron. 6:30, and 1 Corinthians 14:24-25, imply that St. Augustine, St. Aquinas, and Fr. Chrismas were wrong?

 

[SeekerM]

And this commentary on the above passage is from a Catholic commentator named Henry Christmas (M.A., F.R.S., F.S.A.)

This Albicerius was a scoundrel, as St. Augustine says, who calls him flagitiosum hominem. The knowledge which he had of hidden things was not, doubtless, a gift of heaven, any more than the Pythonic spirit which animated that maid in the Acts of the Apostles whom St. Paul obliged to keep silence.[268] It was then the work of the evil spirit.

The gift of tongues, the knowledge of the future, and power to divine the thoughts of others, are always adduced, and with reason, as solid proofs of the presence and inspiration of the Holy Spirit; but if the demon can sometimes perform the same things, he does it to mislead and induce sin, or simply to render true prophecies doubtful; but never to lead to truth, the fear and love of God, and the edification of those around.

The Phantom World.

Again, do passages like 2 Chron. 6:30, and 1 Corinthians 14:24-25, imply that St. Augustine, St. Aquinas, and Fr. Chrismas were wrong?

 

[SeekerM]

Sorry for the double post (#'s 54 & 55.)

I don’t know how that happened (and I don’t know how to delete the last post.)

 

[MtnDwellar]

Sorry for the double post (#'s 54 & 55.)

I don’t know how that happened (and I don’t know how to delete the last post.)

Don’t worry. Probably just a computer glitch.
Or
Was it???

 

[without]

Ok- the devil cannot read our thoughts. Only God can do that.

If that is correct how can saints and Mary and Angles hear our thoughts if one asks for intersession silently?

 

[dynahmik]

No the devil and demons cannot read your thoughts. That is a power that on God has, for He is omniscient, which means all-knowing. However, the devil and demons may have an idea of what you are thinking though, from your actions and the way you are behaving.