Can the human mind will to do evil?

[jen_fla]

i once had a Catholic theology instructor tell me that the human mind can not will to do evil, but that we must always rationalize away the evil we do.

i don’t have much to add other than for me personally and what i’ve observed in my friends, this seems to be the case.

any (name removed by moderator)ut on this would be appreciated.

thanks.

 

[1WATCHER]

i once had a Catholic theology instructor tell me that the human mind can not will to do evil, but that we must always rationalize away the evil we do.

i don’t have much to add other than for me personally and what i’ve observed in my friends, this seems to be the case.

any (name removed by moderator)ut on this would be appreciated.

thanks.

I see this as an unfounded statement due to and for example… when a being chooses to worship satan or voodoo demon’s I would construe that a choice is and has been taken with one’s mind and has therefore chosen to will ones self to do and perform witchcraft, and by rationalized theory it could be they do believe if they bow to evil they will be rewarded to a life of their choosing,

If you could please give an example that you understand to just at the teacher said in you sentence… it would be helpful for other as myself to understand in context.

 

[diggerdomer]

i once had a Catholic theology instructor tell me that the human mind can not will to do evil, but that we must always rationalize away the evil we do.

i don’t have much to add other than for me personally and what i’ve observed in my friends, this seems to be the case.

any (name removed by moderator)ut on this would be appreciated.

thanks.

I would agree in that it’s a matter of perception. I don’t know anyone who thinks “I am going to do evil.” Rather, they do what they perceive as right/good, even though others would view that as evil.

 

[jen_fla]

I see this as an unfounded statement due to and for example… when a being chooses to worship satan or voodoo demon’s I would construe that a choice is and has been taken with one’s mind and has therefore chosen to will ones self to do and perform witchcraft, and by rationalized theory it could be they do believe if they bow to evil they will be rewarded to a life of their choosing,

If you could please give an example that you understand to just at the teacher said in you sentence… it would be helpful for other as myself to understand in context.

well this was a very long time ago in high school and i do recall a family member telling me the instructor was dead wrong, but the conversation ended there.

it always stuck with me, so i decided to see what others here had to say. one example i thought of was a serial killer going around killing women that remind him of his mother. as evil as murder is, i could still see how his mind could move towards that act by rationalizing it. distorted, twisted, rationale, but rationale none the less. a delayed anger response to years of abuse. don’t know.

is there any teaching on this from the Church?

thanks.

 

[jen_fla]

I would agree in that it’s a matter of perception. I don’t know anyone who thinks “I am going to do evil.” Rather, they do what they perceive as right/good, even though others would view that as evil.

i am leaning towards thinking this is correct as well, but then where are we in regards to culpability?

 

[diggerdomer]

i am leaning towards thinking this is correct as well, but then where are we in regards to culpability?

If you know the truth of God and Jesus, as taught by the Catholic Church, and deny it, then you’re culpable.

 

[jen_fla]

If you know the truth of God and Jesus, as taught by the Catholic Church, and deny it, then you’re culpable.

100% agree

 

[flyingfish]

i once had a Catholic theology instructor tell me that the human mind can not will to do evil, but that we must always rationalize away the evil we do.

i don’t have much to add other than for me personally and what i’ve observed in my friends, this seems to be the case.

any (name removed by moderator)ut on this would be appreciated.

thanks.

Think about the desire for revenge. It’s a pretty common human desire. For example we want to see criminal offenders suffer.

If I hear of a rapist going to prison, I think it would be a good thing for him to get raped in prison. Any retributive justice system serves to satisfy our desire for revenge. We would not take well to focusing on rehabilitating offenders, we want them to PAY, and often unapologetically.

 

[jen_fla]

Think about the desire for revenge. It’s a pretty common human desire. For example we want to see criminal offenders suffer.

If I hear of a rapist going to prison, I think it would be a good thing for him to get raped in prison. Any retributive justice system serves to satisfy our desire for revenge. We would not take well to focusing on rehabilitating offenders, we want them to PAY, and often unapologetically.

our emotional reaction to injustice is human. we have to rise above it and use our hearts by praying and then our minds to come up with ways to keep these predators out of society. justice issues aside, i am not sure how this helps me with the original question though.

there was a profound question in there, but it’s probably my bad that i can’t express myself clearly as i am more of a visual thinker.

if no one else responds i might derail my own thread and go off about these judges letting rapists and predators serve next to nothing while they throw the book at drug related crimes. my base nature is with you on wanting to see the rapist raped, but my higher self (thank God) tries to keep that part of me in check. it is quite the struggle sometimes separating hating the sin and loving the sinner.

 

[tonyrey]

We often act without even asking ourselves whether we are doing good or evil. It is only in retrospect that our conscience comes into play - and sometimes only when it is a serious matter. In the case of premeditated acts we may choose to do **what we know is evil **simply because it is the more attractive or pleasurable option. Whether thinking something is evil and doing it for pleasurable or selfish reasons is “an act of willing to do good” is debatable.

What seems certain is that some people delight in doing evil for its own sake. It is the knowledge and feeling of power over another person or animal that satisfies torturers. Are they consciously aware that cruelty is evil? Not always. They may be psychopaths or morally defectives. But there are cases of individuals who are guilty but not insane! They seem to will evil because it is evil! The mere fact that cruelty sometimes becomes an end in itself is evidence of a diabolical state of mind. It could be argued that they transform evil into good but the truth is that although good and evil are real they are abstract qualities. We will to do a particular action which inflicts pain or gives pleasure but usually it is the pain or pleasure we have in mind not its moral status. We do not usually will to do good or evil in themselves but we may deliberately search for something good or evil to do - and then do it. In such cases we definitely will to do evil (or good)!

 

[flyingfish]

our emotional reaction to injustice is human. we have to rise above it and use our hearts by praying and then our minds to come up with ways to keep these predators out of society. justice issues aside, i am not sure how this helps me with the original question though.

there was a profound question in there, but it’s probably my bad that i can’t express myself clearly as i am more of a visual thinker.

if no one else responds i might derail my own thread and go off about these judges letting rapists and predators serve next to nothing while they throw the book at drug related crimes. my base nature is with you on wanting to see the rapist raped, but my higher self (thank God) tries to keep that part of me in check. it is quite the struggle sometimes separating hating the sin and loving the sinner.

Well, you asked if the human mind can will to do evil. For example it is evil to want someone to get raped, no matter who they are, right? But I daresay many of us would want a rapist to get raped in prison, so it’s an example of the human mind willing evil. We don’t need to rationalize it away, we want to see an offender suffer, and we rejoice when they get “what they deserve”.

It depends on how you define evil.

Another example is schadenfreude (German word), or delight in the misfortunes of others. We definitely have that from time to time. German people apparently do it so much they even have a word for it.

“Misery loves company” is another example, where people delight in seeing others fail.

 

[jen_fla]

toneyrey and flyingfish, thank you for conversing with me. today was a tiring day at work and my mind is half asleep already. forgive me, but i won’t be able to respond until most likely monday.

until then, again, thank you for chewing this one over with me. it really has been on my mind for many years now.

peace and have a nice weekend!

 

[Mike_Dye]

i once had a Catholic theology instructor tell me that the human mind can not will to do evil, but that we must always rationalize away the evil we do.

i don’t have much to add other than for me personally and what i’ve observed in my friends, this seems to be the case.

any (name removed by moderator)ut on this would be appreciated.

thanks.

You must keep in mind this idea was presented by a theology instructor, I am assuming on the college level. One thing to always remember is that often people can be educated into imbecility. In part yes, we do rationalize our wrong doing, but come on, you know as well as I do when we do something evil or sinful.Trust me in most cases your friends know in their heart when they have done wrong, even if they try to explain it away.

 

[jen_fla]

We often act without even asking ourselves whether we are doing good or evil. It is only in retrospect that our conscience comes into play - and sometimes only when it is a serious matter. In the case of premeditated acts we may choose to do **what we know is evil **simply because it is the more attractive or pleasurable option. Whether thinking something is evil and doing it for pleasurable or selfish reasons is “an act of willing to do good” is debatable.

What seems certain is that some people delight in doing evil for its own sake. It is the knowledge and feeling of power over another person or animal that satisfies torturers. Are they consciously aware that cruelty is evil? Not always. They may be psychopaths or morally defectives. But there are cases of individuals who are guilty but not insane! They seem to will evil because it is evil! The mere fact that cruelty sometimes becomes an end in itself is evidence of a diabolical state of mind. It could be argued that they transform evil into good but the truth is that although good and evil are real they are abstract qualities. We will to do a particular action which inflicts pain or gives pleasure but usually it is the pain or pleasure we have in mind not its moral status. We do not usually will to do good or evil in themselves but we may deliberately search for something good or evil to do - and then do it. In such cases we definitely will to do evil (or good)!

the part in red is what i’ve been mulling over. we can see how the end result is evil, but their intent is impossible to truly know.

I. The Sources of Morality

1750 The morality of human acts depends on:

• the object chosen;
• the end in view or the intention;
• the circumstances of the action.
  The object, the intention, and the circumstances make up the “sources,” or constitutive elements, of the morality of human acts.

 

[jen_fla]

i think part of the answer can be found in this piece of the puzzle.

IV. Erroneous Judgment

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one’s passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church’s authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.

1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.

1794 A good and pure conscience is enlightened by true faith, for charity proceeds at the same time "from a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith."60

The more a correct conscience prevails, the more do persons and groups turn aside from blind choice and try to be guided by objective standards of moral conduct.61

perhaps i need to read a good book on invisible ignorance. any suggestions?

i warned youse guys, i wouldn’t have much to add to this conversation.

 

[jen_fla]

You must keep in mind this idea was presented by a theology instructor, I am assuming on the college level. One thing to always remember is that often people can be educated into imbecility. In part yes, we do rationalize our wrong doing, but come on, you know as well as I do when we do something evil or sinful.Trust me in most cases your friends know in their heart when they have done wrong, even if they try to explain it away.

heh, you reminded me of the Godfather II…“Whatcha go to college… To get stupid?”

i agree with you especially given some of the garbage being taught today, but no, this was in high school.

and sadly enough i know too many people that “appear” to really be fine with their conscious and doing the evil they do. however, i suspect this is why God made us in time, so we can grow and change from the walking dead to possessing an “inner integrity.”

 

[Janet1983]

i once had a Catholic theology instructor tell me that the human mind can not will to do evil, but that we must always rationalize away the evil we do.

i don’t have much to add other than for me personally and what i’ve observed in my friends, this seems to be the case.

any (name removed by moderator)ut on this would be appreciated.

thanks.

I don’t think that the human mind is incapable of willingly doing evil. In most cases we do rationalize evil away, yes, but I am sure there are rare cases in which we do something knowingly and willingly that is evil and with the intent to do something evil.
One of those cases might be a case of power… Someone might think that they can do whatever they want, and so the evil because they know it is evil just to show that they are having the power to do so. There are people who can do evil with the direct intention of doing evil.

 

[Fide_Roma]

Can you really ever have sufficeint knowledge to be culpable? If we are always rationalizing evil as good, and denial of any real and actual culpability is evil, and we rationalize our denial as good (we believe our culpability to be a societal infused guilt trip and only reletavism is the truth would be an example of honest change of thought), does it not diminish our culpability because we seek to do what we perceive as good?

SO what do we really know? THought experiment only.

 

[jen_fla]

Can you really ever have sufficeint knowledge to be culpable? If we are always rationalizing evil as good, and denial of any real and actual culpability is evil, and we rationalize our denial as good (we believe our culpability to be a societal infused guilt trip and only reletavism is the truth would be an example of honest change of thought), does it not diminish our culpability because we seek to do what we perceive as good?

SO what do we really know? THought experiment only.

ah, so you see why this has caught my curiosity for so long!

i will have to read more, but until then my answer is: :hypno: