Can the laws of logic exist without God?

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Can the laws of logic exist without God? For example, the laws of logic were just always around, eternally, with no cause?
 
Such rules ‘existing’ as ‘things’ is kind of hitting on some underdefined areas of language. They’re observations of how things which exist behave, and whether those rules are prescriptive or descriptive in nature is very likely beyond discovery, possibly forever. But if you want a discussion on the topic I would ask, if God created those rules, can be disobey those rules?
 
The laws of logic transcend humanity, they do not depend on whether or not humans agree with them. So they must be a reflection of God and therefore a stumbling block for atheists.
 
Dan_Defender said:
The laws of logic transcend humanity, they do not depend on whether or not humans agree with them. So they must be a reflection of God and therefore a stumbling block for atheists.
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My life must be full of stumbling blocks then, as I can think of many laws that exist whether or not humans agree with them. Everything from gravity to US electoral laws.
 
FiveLinden said:
I can think of many laws that exist whether or not humans agree with them. Everything from gravity
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By gravitational forces the universe should have torn itself apart by now with its accelerated expansion. This is why the concepts of dark matter and dark energy are necessary. So no transcendent law there.
 
Even better is to ask could “reason” exist without GOD.

I laugh when I read about the “AI” initiatives that many universities, corporations, etc. are currently pushing.
I am a computer science engineer by trade and the issue I see with that endeavor is “What OS (Operating System) does GOD runs under?”
I doubt any of them have it. A futile enterprise.
They can make a facsimile that mimics “intelligence” but does not actually possesses “REASON” like you and I and the rest of the human race was gifted by GOD.

Peace!
 
Logic can be used in non-religious ways such as when atheists use logic in arguments. No doubt about this. But logic itself ultimately comes from our capacity to think and reason which is from God.
 
I think the question is not “can” the laws of logic exist without God, but rather “do” they?

To which the answer is “Yes”.

For example, whether God exists or not has no bearing on The Law of Non-Contradiction.

Curiously, it is more likely to be “spiritual but not religious” pagans, rather than atheists or conventional theists, who will deny that the laws of logic are absolute, and who, when shown a contradiction in two statements will just say that “both can be true” even when they are incompatible.

The more difficult question, and one which I think has been pondered by theologians and philosophers, is whether God is bound by laws of logic.

As Dan123 commented
Dan123 said:
But if you want a discussion on the topic I would ask, if God created those rules, can be disobey those rules?
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Dan_Defender said:
By gravitational forces the universe should have torn itself apart by now with its accelerated expansion. This is why the concepts of dark matter and dark energy are necessary. So no transcendent law there.
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By gravitational forces planes should never be able to get off the ground, that is why the concepts of ‘lift’ and ‘aerodynamics’ are necessary.
 
WannabeSaint said:
Can the laws of logic exist without God? For example, the laws of logic were just always around, eternally, with no cause?
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I think the question is grounded in a misunderstanding of the nature of God.

The laws of logic, to be indisputable, must be grounded in the nature of ultimate reality not in themselves.

It is that ultimate reality that is God.

The reason for the false conundrum behind your question is the notion that God isn’t that ultimate reality but, rather, a supreme being operating within that reality.

That isn’t a proper understanding of God, though.
 
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WannabeSaint said:
Can the laws of logic exist without God? For example, the laws of logic were just always around, eternally, with no cause?
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No, because the laws of logic is an expression of existence and therefore an expression of a nature that is existence or pure-actuality. It’s an expression of the ultimate reality from which all other realities come into existence. Logic itself cannot exist without a being whose very nature is existence (God). Things are possible or impossible because of the nature of existence. Without existence logic becomes meaningless, or rather it becomes nothing at all because it doesn’t have a being of it’s own but rather it is an expression of an eternal-nature.

In fact that there are laws of logic is evidence of God; it is evidence of an eternal unchanging ultimate reality that is by nature existence.
 
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