Can the weeds change into wheat?

[DCNBILL]

In today’s Gospel Jesus explains the parable of the Wheat and the Weeds. He states that the weeds are the “children of the Evil One” sown by the Devil.

Is there no hope for the weeds? Is there no way they can be transformed into wheat?

 

[Nita]

In today’s Gospel Jesus explains the parable of the Wheat and the Weeds. He states that the weeds are the “children of the Evil One” sown by the Devil.

Is there no hope for the weeds? Is there no way they can be transformed into wheat?

Yes there is hope - as long as the person is still living. While alive, the option to repent is always there; the choice is his/hers. God does not take never takes away our free will; He does not force one to choose to be, or remain, evil.

 

[InJesusItrust]

I would think so, or there would be no point in withholding judgement to the end of time.

 

[Batfink]

Is there no hope for the weeds? Is there no way they can be transformed into wheat?

No. Those who are sown by the Devil are of the Devil. cf. “No servant can serve two masters.”

However, weeds and wheat can look similar as they are growing (hence one reason why they should not be pulled up until the harvest) and what APPEARED to be weeds can turn out to be wheat, even at the last minute.

 

[DCNBILL]

No. Those who are sown by the Devil are of the Devil. cf. “No servant can serve two masters.”

However, weeds and wheat can look similar as they are growing (hence one reason why they should not be pulled up until the harvest) and what APPEARED to be weeds can turn out to be wheat, even at the last minute.

This is an interesting take on the parable, I like this.

It would seem however Jesus is definitely stating that there will be weeds that are destine for the fire.

Is the humanity of Jesus being informed here by the divinity of Jesus who is already aware of the end times?

 

[coachdennis]

God constantly offers his covenant relationship to all human beings throughout history. Whether an individual responds in acceptance of that covenant relationship through Jesus is another question. For me, the most important part is that weeds CAN become wheat at any point in their lives – think the repentant thief on the cross – and those who are wheat (can we really be sure?) – can also become weeds. Yet God is continuing offering his love to us!

How can you not want to “walk in teh garden” with a God like that?

 

[JonNC]

No. Those who are sown by the Devil are of the Devil. cf. “No servant can serve two masters.”

However, weeds and wheat can look similar as they are growing (hence one reason why they should not be pulled up until the harvest) and what APPEARED to be weeds can turn out to be wheat, even at the last minute.

You probably don’t mean it this way, but this sure sounds like unconditional election and limited atonement to me. Maybe you can tell me why what you are saying is not.

Jon

 

[Batfink]

You probably don’t mean it this way, but this sure sounds like unconditional election and limited atonement to me. Maybe you can tell me why what you are saying is not.

Jon

I apologise. Maybe my wording was off. I didn’t mean to suggest that the people who are weeds are somehow predestined to be damned, only that God and God alone has the foreknowledge of who is weed and who wheat; we cannot judge. It may be that many people who live most of their lives in a state of grace reject God in the end and so turn out to be weeds. It may be (more happily, and I pray far more often) that many people live their lives appearing to be weeds but in the end accept God and are wheat. Since God and us work on different planes I have no problem in thinking BOTH that we freely choose God and choose to live as ‘wheat’ AND that God has the foreknowledge of who (if anyone, although I realise it is not permitted to believe in universal salvation, I hope for everyone) will choose to reject him. Thus, I believe that those who is a weed and who is wheat is not apparent to us since they can look the same, but He who harvests knows (and since he lives in the eternal kairos how could he fail to know?) which is which.

Maybe I haven’t clarified at all. I tried.

 

[Nita]

No. Those who are sown by the Devil are of the Devil. cf. “No servant can serve two masters.”

However, weeds and wheat can look similar as they are growing (hence one reason why they should not be pulled up until the harvest) and what APPEARED to be weeds can turn out to be wheat, even at the last minute.

And the harvesting - the separating - comes after death. After death there is no chance to repent of mortal sin - to change from weeds into wheat (or vice versa); but before death it is always possible.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Is there no hope for the weeds? Is there no way they can be transformed into wheat?

This question is answered in another parable, the parable of the prodigal son

 

[57Bill]

We are all weeds. What (Who) only can change us to wheat?

I wouldn’t necessarily call the older brother wheat ^ He would be rejoicing as well if he was.(Tale of two sons)

 

[thenobes]

I used to look at it another way, that sheep could turn into goats (no OSAS). Because although Jesus says all who are drawn by the Father will come to Him, He doesn’t say that the Father uninterruptedly draws anyone.

But to the OP, it seems that once the Word is sown in us, we have by Free Will the ability to allow it to grow or to reject it. It seems that either the works of the evil one or the Word of God may grow within us and our free will determines which does.

peace
steve

 

[bitznbitez]

Is there no hope for the weeds? Is there no way they can be transformed into wheat?

If water can be turned into wine thru the power of God.
If nothing can be turned into creation through the power of God.
If the bread and wine can become the body and blood of Christ.

Why could not the power of God change the weeds to wheat if they were willing to cooperate with grace ?

But ultimately, to me it seems, the question gets to the question of predestination. If the weeds cannot change are they not predestined for destruction. Trent addressed that when it said : Canon 17. If anyone says that the grace of justification is shared by those only who are predestined to life, but that all others who are called are called indeed but receive not grace, as if they are by divine power predestined to evil, let him be anathema.

Maybe I am over simplifying or viewing it wrong. Just my rambling thoughts tonight.

 

[DCNBILL]

If water can be turned into wine thru the power of God.
If nothing can be turned into creation through the power of God.
If the bread and wine can become the body and blood of Christ.

Why could not the power of God change the weeds to wheat if they were willing to cooperate with grace ?

But ultimately, to me it seems, the question gets to the question of predestination. If the weeds cannot change are they not predestined for destruction. Trent addressed that when it said : Canon 17. If anyone says that the grace of justification is shared by those only who are predestined to life, but that all others who are called are called indeed but receive not grace, as if they are by divine power predestined to evil, let him be anathema.

Maybe I am over simplifying or viewing it wrong. Just my rambling thoughts tonight.

It would seem to me not to be so much a matter of predestination but of knowledge of the end times that is demonstrated in these verses. Jesus, being the eternal second person of the trinity, has some knowledge of how things turn out.

 

[Gorgias]

I’ve heard the explanations that say that Jesus was talking about a weed that looks exactly like wheat when it is young, but becomes more obvious later in the season. That’s an interesting explanation, but it’s not explicit in the parable itself (although it might be an assumption Jesus is making, based on his audience).

However, parables aren’t meant to be full and complete descriptions – rather, they illustrate one facet of the lesson that’s being taught. So, I think it may be overly ambitious to ask the question “can weeds turn into wheat?”. It seems that this parable addresses other questions: how does evil come into the world? why does it spring up all around us? why doesn’t God root it out as soon as it’s present?

 

[bitznbitez]

It would seem to me not to be so much a matter of predestination but of knowledge of the end times that is demonstrated in these verses. Jesus, being the eternal second person of the trinity, has some knowledge of how things turn out.

Sure and I understand and agree with that understanding. The distinction I was focusing on is in the sense of can they change. They can change, but knowing the end means its known they won’t. However if we say they can’t change then thats problematic.

But its ultimately splitting hairs and one of the things drawing me to the Church is the fact we don’t establish doctrine by aruging endlessly. I defer to the wisdom of those with the rank of Deacon.

Enjoyed the question.

 

[DCNBILL]

I’ve heard the explanations that say that Jesus was talking about a weed that looks exactly like wheat when it is young, but becomes more obvious later in the season. That’s an interesting explanation, but it’s not explicit in the parable itself (although it might be an assumption Jesus is making, based on his audience).

However, parables aren’t meant to be full and complete descriptions – rather, they illustrate one facet of the lesson that’s being taught. So, I think it may be overly ambitious to ask the question “can weeds turn into wheat?”. It seems that this parable addresses other questions: how does evil come into the world? why does it spring up all around us? why doesn’t God root it out as soon as it’s present?

Excellent point!

 

[englishredrose]

yes indeed they can and do… metaphorically speaking

 

[DCNBILL]

Sure and I understand and agree with that understanding. The distinction I was focusing on is in the sense of can they change. They can change, but knowing the end means its known they won’t. However if we say they can’t change then thats problematic. Very much in agreement here.

But its ultimately splitting hairs and one of the things drawing me to the Church is the fact we don’t establish doctrine by aruging endlessly. I defer to the wisdom of those with the rank of Deacon.

Enjoyed the question.

Rank does not wisdom bring, say Yoda.

I found the readings last week on the parables of particular interest, hence tossing out the question to see what others thought on the matter.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut as well! :tiphat:

 

[englishredrose]

we learn from our mistakes don’t we and improve. Learning from our mistakes helps us to be better at what it is we do. So we all start out weedy per se and we all turn into wheat through our own set of unique skills and personalities which God loves us for because he does love us. We may not be all the same kind of wheat because there be no purpose in that because we have to learn to live with each other and share our skills. God wants us to share. It may feel lke to some that others are not wheat just because they are not of the same level as they are but to God we are all special and sees us as wheat. We have to learn to mix the wheat to get the right combination rather than be all perfect wheat. No one is perfect wheat in that sense. But we are all good wheat in the eyes of God. So yes weeds do change into wheat every single day of our lives. Its God grace that we can see that goodness