Can we Discuss the Balamand Declaration for a Sec?

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coptsoldier

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I am sure most in Eastern Circles are aware of the Balamand declaration between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. What I wish to discuss is what that means for us Eastern Catholics. By rejecting Uniatism, doesnt that effectively throw us under a bus?
 
coptsoldier said:
I am sure most in Eastern Circles are aware of the Balamand declaration between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. What I wish to discuss is what that means for us Eastern Catholics. By rejecting Uniatism, doesnt that effectively throw us under a bus?
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Not at all. The declaration gives a particular definition of Uniatism - in the sense of missionary activity - and rejects that activity as workable means to reunion.

It moreover specifically acknowledges fundamental rights of Eastern Catholic churches.
 
I can definitely at least give you half a second, but I’ll try for a whole second. 🙂
coptsoldier said:
I am sure most in Eastern Circles are aware of the Balamand declaration between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. What I wish to discuss is what that means for us Eastern Catholics. By rejecting Uniatism, doesnt that effectively throw us under a bus?
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I’ve read the Balamand Statement – or, to use its title “Uniatism, Method of Union of the Past, and the Present Search for Full Communion” – but why would its ideas throw us under the bus? Perhaps we need a fuller picture of what your concern is, before we can lay it to rest. :cool:
 
P.S. For whatever it’s worth, may I point out that many Greek and Oriental Catholics (myself included) strongly *support *the Balamand Agreement.
 
coptsoldier said:
I am sure most in Eastern Circles are aware of the Balamand declaration between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. What I wish to discuss is what that means for us Eastern Catholics. By rejecting Uniatism, doesnt that effectively throw us under a bus?
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The Balamand document was the result of the seventh session, begun in the sixth session Freising 1990. The Friesing document states that it is a dialogue and a study:8. It is our conviction that dialogue, which is the most suitable way to work for unity, is also the most appropriate forum for confronting problems, particularly that of “Uniatism.” For this reason the dialogue must continue. For the present our attention will focus on the study of this particular question.
 
What I mean is, as an Ex-orthodox now Byzantine Catholic I strongly believe in Being Orthodox in Communion with Rome, or Eastern Catholic Whichever you prefer. Doesn’t renouncing Uniatism renounce our own churches? That is to say, doesn’t it effectively state that orthodox wishing to enter communion with Rome for moral reasons should have to remain in the Orthodox church until the schism is over? (Something I seriously doubt will happen)
 
Never Mind I just read this statement below. Although, so if we accept eastern catholicism as valid, what exactly is being rejected at Balamand?
  1. While the inviolable freedom of persons and their obligation to follow the requirements of their conscience remain secure, in the search for re-establishing unity there is no question of conversion of people from one Church to the other in order to ensure their salvation. There is a question of achieving together the will of Christ for his own and the design of God for his Church by means of a common quest by the Churches for a full accord on the content of the faith and its implications. This effort is being carried on in the current theological dialogue. The present document is a necessary stage in this dialogue.
  2. The Oriental Catholic Churches who have desired to re-establish full communion with the See of Rome and have remained faithful to it, have the rights and obligations which are connected with this communion. The principles determining their attitude towards Orthodox Churches are those which have been stated by the Second Vatican Council and have been put into practice by the Popes who have clarified the practical consequences flowing from these principles in various documents published since then. These Churches, then, should be inserted, on both local and universal levels, into the dialogue of love, in mutual respect and reciprocal trust found once again, and enter into the theological dialogue, with all its practical implications.
 
Balamand basically said individual may (including priests and bishops) but unless there is corporate Union, the Catholic Church will not induce entire parishes or eparchies to join as a whole.
 
Thanks for clarifying, coptsoldier, that does help a lot in terms of responding to your question. I see now that the issue isn’t the Balamand Statement, or at least not in the way one might think vis-a-vis its title “Uniatism, Method of Union of the Past, and the Present Search for Full Communion”.

I think a key phrase you used is “as an Ex-orthodox now Byzantine Catholic”. (When I originally read your OP, I saw it in terms of Byzantine Catholics in general, regardless of being “Cradle Catholics” or ex-Orthodox.) Absolutely you are right that you and others *can *‘convert’ from Orthodoxy to Catholicism. To extend the movement metaphor, if an Orthodox has the momentum to come into Communion with Rome, we are not going to push them back … but if they do not, we aren’t going to (if you will) get them a bus ticket to get into the Roman Communion. 🙂
 
coptsoldier said:
Never Mind I just read this statement below. Although, so if we accept eastern catholicism as valid, what exactly is being rejected at Balamand?
  1. While the inviolable freedom of persons and their obligation to follow the requirements of their conscience remain secure, in the search for re-establishing unity there is no question of conversion of people from one Church to the other in order to ensure their salvation. There is a question of achieving together the will of Christ for his own and the design of God for his Church by means of a common quest by the Churches for a full accord on the content of the faith and its implications. This effort is being carried on in the current theological dialogue. The present document is a necessary stage in this dialogue.
  2. The Oriental Catholic Churches who have desired to re-establish full communion with the See of Rome and have remained faithful to it, have the rights and obligations which are connected with this communion. The principles determining their attitude towards Orthodox Churches are those which have been stated by the Second Vatican Council and have been put into practice by the Popes who have clarified the practical consequences flowing from these principles in various documents published since then. These Churches, then, should be inserted, on both local and universal levels, into the dialogue of love, in mutual respect and reciprocal trust found once again, and enter into the theological dialogue, with all its practical implications.
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Good quotes. There’s also this one: “Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Oriental, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other”
 
Btw, I think you have answered this before, but don’t remember and don’t have time to re-read previous threads: about how long were you Orthodox (Coptic Orthodox iirc) before becoming EC?
 
Peter_J said:
Good quotes. There’s also this one: “Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Oriental, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other”
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In context, from Balamand – Practical rules:
22. Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Oriental, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other; that is to say, it no longer aims at proselytizing among the Orthodox. It aims at answering the spiritual needs of its own faithful and it has no desire for expansion at the expense of the Orthodox Church. Within these perspectives, so that there will be no longer place for mistrust and suspicion, it is necessary that there be reciprocal exchanges of information about various pastoral projects and that thus cooperation between bishops and all those with responsibilities in our Churches, can be set in motion and develop.
 
Vico said:
In context, from Balamand – Practical rules:
22. Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Oriental, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other; that is to say, it no longer aims at proselytizing among the Orthodox. It aims at answering the spiritual needs of its own faithful and it has no desire for expansion at the expense of the Orthodox Church. Within these perspectives, so that there will be no longer place for mistrust and suspicion, it is necessary that there be reciprocal exchanges of information about various pastoral projects and that thus cooperation between bishops and all those with responsibilities in our Churches, can be set in motion and develop.
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Exactly. 👍

And vice versa, I.e. the Orthodox Church ought not to expand at the expense of the Catholic Church.
 
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