Canadian Cardinal & Same-Sex Marriage

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A Canadian Cardinal speaks out on the Bill before the Legislature that will allow members of the same sex to marry. The Cardinal says passage of said Bill has ramifications far beyond individual marriages. The link is for a Catholic News Service article.
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0501001.htm
 
Americans take heed, Canada is an example of what happens when a free country slides down the slippery slope of relativism, when Catholics in that country allow their bishops to abnegate their calling and then follow their bishops miserable examples of social cowardice, and when the false myth that religion can have NO say in politics becomes widely accepted.

By the way, ‘California’ is the American spelling of Canada.
 
To add fuel to the fire one “Catholic” newspaper in Canada writes this:
“Moral theology has moved beyond “Act centred” towards a more “person centred” approach where the overriding Jesus ethic of love trumps everything. If grace builds on nature, might we not say same-sex, loving and committed relationships and the sexual expression thereof can be holy and may even be sacramental.”

I know… hard to believe that this comes from a Catholic paper but here’s the link…
www3.telus.net/catholicnewtimes/newword.html
It is a testament of God’s love for us that He doesn’t annihilate us right now.
 
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thomist:
Americans take heed, Canada is an example of what happens when a free country slides down the slippery slope of relativism,
You mean we’d stop warmongering and give our citizens health care? Damn, that is awful!
 
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Exporter:
A Canadian Cardinal speaks out on the Bill before the Legislature that will allow members of the same sex to marry. The Cardinal says passage of said Bill has ramifications far beyond individual marriages. The link is for a Catholic News Service article.
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0501001.htm
I love the truth. Thank God for the few courageous souls that stand up for it.

It is amazing that lies and anti-logic are so popular but, when it means “fun without consequences”, who can blame our juvenile-minded world?
 
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Tlaloc:
You mean we’d stop warmongering and give our citizens health care? Damn, that is awful!

He’s referring to calling “reading the Bible” hate speech, I am sure.

Now, you don’t think reading from a book is a bad thing do you? Should we start censoring books we don’t like?
 
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Exporter:
A Canadian Cardinal speaks out on the Bill before the Legislature that will allow members of the same sex to marry. The Cardinal says passage of said Bill has ramifications far beyond individual marriages. The link is for a Catholic News Service article.
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0501001.htm
Hey, Ex. I have to go to work in a bit. I have read the article on Cardinal Ouellet and what he has to say. On first glance, it seems heavy on rhetoric and light on the actual questions posed by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but one has to remember that it was an interview. One also has to remember that it is a Cardinal speaking. :o Anyway let me dredge up my Charter and think about how it applies to this question. While Catholics certainly have some legitimate concerns about the new Bill, we must be careful to address what realistically applies by virtue of the Charter and what are fears and projections.
 
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Brad:
He’s referring to calling “reading the Bible” hate speech, I am sure.
No idea what you are talking about., I said “stop warmongering” (what was the last war Canada started?) and “give our citizens healthcare.” How you manage to get “censor the bible” out of that is a mystery to me.
Now, you don’t think reading from a book is a bad thing do you? Should we start censoring books we don’t like?
No of course not. I have several bibles at home to go with my 2 tao-te-ching translations and my analects by confuscius and so on.
 
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Tlaloc:
No idea what you are talking about., I said “stop warmongering” (what was the last war Canada started?) and “give our citizens healthcare.” How you manage to get “censor the bible” out of that is a mystery to me.
I was referring to what the original poster was talking about. I was correcting what you had presumed he was talking about. That’s how I got there. I don’t think he had in mind not warmongering or healthcare as bad things. I think he was referring to other bad things.

By the way, Canada doesn’t start wars because it would lose and it doesn’t need to as it is well protected.
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Tlaloc:
No of course not. I have several bibles at home to go with my 2 tao-te-ching translations and my analects by confuscius and so on.
Well then you are one step ahead of Canada’s Hate Speech Laws which do cause letters to be sent warning religious broadcasters that read from the Bible regarding homosexuality.
 
I have done a bit of googling and offer the following links and quotes to fill you in on events, information, and major players pertinent to this question right now in Canada. I myself found it very engaging reading and hope you will take the time to read more than one point of view.

The info is organized as follows and, due to length, is divided into two posts:

Overview
Charter of Rights and Freedoms
Ontario Court of Appeal Ruling
Supreme Court Ruling
Prime Minister Martin’s position
Cardinal Ambrozic: news report
Notwithstanding clause (the Cardinal’s silver bullet)
Cardinal Ambrozic’s letter to Martin
Catholic Civil Rights League: aspects of the question

Overview
Here is a link to a CBC news report on the Supreme Court decision. It gives a synopsis of the recent history of this question in Canada.

cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/12/09/scoc-gaymarriage041209.html

Charter of Rights and Freedoms
Here is a link to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. (It’s short) Section 15 deals with Equality Rights under which the claims for Same Sex Marriage fall. Section 2 deals with Fundamental Rights including the freedom of conscience and religion.

laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/

Ontario Court of Appeal Ruling
Former Prime Minister referred the question to the Supreme Court of Canada after an Ontario Court of Appeal ruling on the question. I have not been able to locate the ruling yet (and have to go to work). But here is the link; you can find the ruling yourself if you are really keen. I do not think there is any pressing need to look at this ruling, however.

ontariocourts.on.ca/appeal.htm

Supreme Court Ruling
Before this question went to Parliament, the Supreme Court decided on all four questions referred to it by the Governor in Council pursuant to s.53 of the Supreme Court Act. These questions were as follows:

Governor in Council said:
1.Is the annexed *Proposal for an Act respecting certain aspects of legal capacity for marriage for civil purposes *within the exclusive legislative authority of the Parliament of Canada? If not, in what particular or particulars, and to what extent?
Code:
 2.If the answer to question 1 is yes, is section 1 of the proposal, which extends capacity to marry to persons of the same sex, consistent with the *Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms*? If not, in what particular or particulars, and to what extent?

 3. Does the freedom of religion guaranteed by paragraph 2(*a*) of the *Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms *protect religious officials from being compelled to perform a marriage between two persons of the same sex that is contrary to their religious beliefs?

 4.Is the opposite-sex requirement for marriage for civil purposes, as established by the common law and set out for Quebec in section 5 of the *Federal Law-Civil Law Harmonization Act, No. 1*, consistent with the *Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms*? If not, in what particular or particulars and to what extent?

Here is a link to the complete rulings and reasons of the Supreme Court in this case:

lexum.umontreal.ca/csc-scc/en/rec/html/2004scc079.wpd.html

Prime Minister Martin’s position
Here is The Address by Prime Minister Paul Martin on Bill C-38 (The Civil Marriage Act):

pm.gc.ca/eng/news.asp?id=421
 
Cardinal Ambrozic: news report
Here is a news report on Cardinal Ambrozic’s response to Prime Minister Paul Martin. His Emminence proposes using the ‘notwithstanding’ clause of the Canadian Constitution to over-ride the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Google the Constitution yourselves if you are interested.

ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1106134002053_162?s_name=&no_ads=

Notwithstanding clause
Here is a link to the Canadian Constitution. The notwithstanding clause is Section 33 which appears under Application under the Charter. No point in going there unless you are a real keener. I will just quote the notwithstanding clause before the link:

Canadian Constitution said:
Exception where express declaration
  1. (1) Parliament or the legislature of a province may expressly declare in an Act of Parliament or of the legislature, as the case may be, that the Act or a provision thereof shall operate notwithstanding a provision included in section 2 or sections 7 to 15 of this Charter.
laws.justice.gc.ca/en/const/annex_e.html#charter

Cardinal Ambrozic: his letter to Martin
Here is Cardinal Ambrozic’s actual letter to Prime Minister Martin:

lifesite.net/features/marriage_defence/CardinalAmbrozicletter.pdf

Catholic Civil Rights League: aspects of the question
On this page you can find some material published by the Canadian Catholic Civil Rights League

ccrl.ca/index.php

This material should give you a good grasp of what is happening in Canada right now. Happy reading.
 
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Brad:
I was referring to what the original poster was talking about. I was correcting what you had presumed he was talking about. That’s how I got there.
It was a joke Brad. Of course a joke is also a way of saying something serious as T.S. Elliot once said. The serious thing I was saying is that the US has some pretty huge shortcomings compared to Canada so any argument that relativism leads to Canada really isn’t compelling.
By the way, Canada doesn’t start wars because it would lose and it doesn’t need to as it is well protected.
Not everyone would be an aggressor just because they could, Brad.
Well then you are one step ahead of Canada’s Hate Speech Laws which do cause letters to be sent warning religious broadcasters that read from the Bible regarding homosexuality.
Well now wait, you said “read the bible” not broadcast it. Since the airwaves belong to the country if they choose to pass laws that limit “hate speech” on them and that includes segments of the bible that’s their business.
 
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Brad:
Well then you are one step ahead of Canada’s Hate Speech Laws which do cause letters to be sent warning religious broadcasters that read from the Bible regarding homosexuality.
Can you give some links please? I haven’t read the caselaw on this for a few years. But I gather it is not as simple as people think. Any links to relevant caselaw or news reports?
 
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Brad:
By the way, Canada doesn’t start wars because it would…
What do you mean? Didn’t you see we just got a bunch of new(used) state of the art subs from the Brits.
:eek:
 
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Brad:
By the way, Canada doesn’t start wars because it would lose…
What do you mean? Didn’t you see we just got a bunch of new(used) state of the art subs from the Brits.
:eek:
 
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Poisson:
What do you mean? Didn’t you see we just got a bunch of new(used) state of the art subs from the Brits.
:eek:
Yes, one burned at sea, losing a young sailor’s life. The other had to be bailed in the middle of big water using yogurt cups. Sheesh. :banghead: The inquest was almost closed when I think it was the navy said the answers were not satisfactory. Well, duh!

Looks like our man Dallaire got the cold shoulder on the Oprah show. The way she talks sounds like her reporter was the first one breaking the news that there is a genocide in Rwanda as we speak. :nope: Robert Redford broke tradition by introducing the Dallaire documentary (not Hotel Rwanda) at the Sundance film festival. Dallaire is working with war-affected children and teaches at Harvard these days. There is talk that they will make him Governor General. I think they should make him ambassador to the U.N. Better still I think he should run for Prime Minister.

I gather we are now well and truly off topic. :bigyikes:
 
Ani Ibi:
Can you give some links please? I haven’t read the caselaw on this for a few years. But I gather it is not as simple as people think. Any links to relevant caselaw or news reports?
I don’t have links but I know Renewal Ministries (Ralph Martin) received such a letter and I know Focus on the Family Canada was concerned about receiving one or may have received one themselves. I heard from the horse’s mouth on both of these - there may be information on their web pages but I’m not sure.
 
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Poisson:
What do you mean? Didn’t you see we just got a bunch of new(used) state of the art subs from the Brits.
:eek:
I do love Canada. I’m just trying to be realistic.
 
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