Canadian Prime Minister visits Ukrainian Catholic University in Ukraine

[KyivAndrew]

Politically and religiously, it has been a tough year for many Ukrainians. The new pro-Kremlin President of Ukraine has begun an authoritarian crackdown on freedoms similar to what Putin did earlier in Russia, closing down any independent television stations, and breaking the constitution of Ukraine. The Head of the Secret Police under the new President is an oligarch who sent a minion to “have a meeting” some months back with the rector of the Ukrainian Catholic University in Lviv asking him to divulge the names of any students who may want to protest against the new thuggish President Yanukovych. The rector of the University, Father Gudziak whom you will see in videos below, bravely showed the secret policeman the door. Too reminiscent of Soviet times, when the Ukrainian Catholic Church was illegal and persecuted by the K.G.B.

Ukraine’s new Pres. Yanukovych had a criminal record, hails from the russified east of the country (nothing wrong with that but there the Donetsk mafia clan rules), and will only toe the line of the Moscow Patriarch’s Russian Orthodox Church which results in such inanities as 50,000 Ukrainian Catholics not being allowed to build a church (just one) in the Odesa region where the Russian Orthodox Metropolitan is a member of the government, something which Ukrainian Catholics are forbidden from – taking political office. The Mormons meanwhile can build to their hearts’ content because at least they are not Ukrainian Catholics and Yanukovych’s Regions Party likes money and appears to have given them a free pass.

In these trying times, a visit by Canada’s Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper was most welcome.

Story here:
ucu.edu.ua/eng/news/598/

Video of P.M. Harper visiting University in Lviv, Ukraine, accompanied by said rector, Father Gudziak here:
youtube.com/watch?v=DHU6ZbWQE-Q

Full audio of P.M.'s speech at University here at site of PMO (remember Canada is bilingual):
pm.gc.ca/eng/media_gallery.asp?media_category_id=2&pageId=64&featureId=11

(if you hear the name “Gongadze”, this is the surname of a journalist who was murdered by corrupt political authorities who ran the country prior to the failed Orange Revolution, and whose name has become a call for freedom somewhat like Anna Politkovskaya has become in Russia, though there it is still harder)

Video of thanks from Ukrainian community to P.M. Harper here:
youtube.com/watch?v=HzaXeSgOJ7A

I thought the story deserves mention on CAF, though I post on Eastern Catholicism, not world news, so we don’t start debating the Tories, Harper, or Canadian politics.

 

[The_Reginator]

Politically and religiously, it has been a tough year for many Ukrainians. The new pro-Kremlin President of Ukraine has begun an authoritarian crackdown on freedoms similar to what Putin did earlier in Russia, closing down any independent television stations, and breaking the constitution of Ukraine. The Head of the Secret Police under the new President is an oligarch who sent a minion to “have a meeting” some months back with the rector of the Ukrainian Catholic University in Lviv asking him to divulge the names of any students who may want to protest against the new thuggish President Yanukovych. The rector of the University, Father Gudziak whom you will see in videos below, bravely showed the secret policeman the door. Too reminiscent of Soviet times, when the Ukrainian Catholic Church was illegal and persecuted by the K.G.B.

Ukraine’s new Pres. Yanukovych had a criminal record, hails from the russified east of the country (nothing wrong with that but there the Donetsk mafia clan rules), and will only toe the line of the Moscow Patriarch’s Russian Orthodox Church which results in such inanities as 50,000 Ukrainian Catholics not being allowed to build a church (just one) in the Odesa region where the Russian Orthodox Metropolitan is a member of the government, something which Ukrainian Catholics are forbidden from – taking political office. The Mormons meanwhile can build to their hearts’ content because at least they are not Ukrainian Catholics and Yanukovych’s Regions Party likes money and appears to have given them a free pass.

In these trying times, a visit by Canada’s Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper was most welcome.

Story here:
ucu.edu.ua/eng/news/598/

Video of P.M. Harper visiting University in Lviv, Ukraine, accompanied by said rector, Father Gudziak here:
youtube.com/watch?v=DHU6ZbWQE-Q

Full audio of P.M.'s speech at University here at site of PMO (remember Canada is bilingual):
pm.gc.ca/eng/media_gallery.asp?media_category_id=2&pageId=64&featureId=11

(if you hear the name “Gongadze”, this is the surname of a journalist who was murdered by corrupt political authorities who ran the country prior to the failed Orange Revolution, and whose name has become a call for freedom somewhat like Anna Politkovskaya has become in Russia, though there it is still harder)

Video of thanks from Ukrainian community to P.M. Harper here:
youtube.com/watch?v=HzaXeSgOJ7A

I thought the story deserves mention on CAF, though I post on Eastern Catholicism, not world news, so we don’t start debating the Tories, Harper, or Canadian politics.

Thanks KyivAndrew for sharing that information.
So far I’ve only checked out the first video.

I had no idea that the situation in The Ukraine was so dire, especially for Catholics.

For the Catholic Church and for freedom in The Ukraine:
AVE MARIA, gratia plena, Dominus tecum.
Benedicta tu in mulieribus,
et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus.
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc, et in hora mortis nostrae.
Amen.

 

[Nine_Two]

Wait, Orthodox prelates are allowed to run for public office but Catholic ones aren’t? Is this imposed by the government? Personally I agree with disallowing them (although it should be done on the Church side).

It is unfortunate that this situation exists in the Ukraine, but like many of the countries in the area it is still recovering from the legacy of Communism and like its neighbors has major corruption issues (this isn’t a justification, by the way, it’s a horrible thing).

As for Harper visiting a UC University, not very surprising. His party is strong in all the areas where Ukrainians typically settled, so that just makes him look good to his voters.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Wait, Orthodox prelates are allowed to run for public office but Catholic ones aren’t? Is this imposed by the government? Personally I agree with disallowing them (although it should be done on the Church side).

It is unfortunate that this situation exists in the Ukraine, but like many of the countries in the area it is still recovering from the legacy of Communism and like its neighbors has major corruption issues (this isn’t a justification, by the way, it’s a horrible thing).

As for Harper visiting a UC University, not very surprising. His party is strong in all the areas where Ukrainians typically settled, so that just makes him look good to his voters.

I think its the Church that mandates this. In the Philippines a priest ran for governor and won a term, during the time from the campaign he was granted a leave of absence by the Bishop. When the presidential elections was coming up he publicly entertained the thought of running for president. The Bishop told him he would have to be laicized if he runs for president (win or lose). He tried instead to get a second term as governor and lost. I haven’t heard if he was allowed to resume his priesthood since.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

One problem with the current situation in Ukraine is that it is cloaked in an aura of political legitimacy since the new president won what by all international observer accounts was a free and democratic election.

From what I’ve seen myself, it would appear that the Ukrainian electorate have a way to go before they realize that elections can be a dangerous tool in the hands of the politically naive. Free choices do not mean that every choice is harmless. One may vote a party in to one’s overall national detriment - as the electorate there truly did.

Alex

 

[Nine_Two]

I think its the Church that mandates this. In the Philippines a priest ran for governor and won a term, during the time from the campaign he was granted a leave of absence by the Bishop. When the presidential elections was coming up he publicly entertained the thought of running for president. The Bishop told him he would have to be laicized if he runs for president (win or lose). He tried instead to get a second term as governor and lost. I haven’t heard if he was allowed to resume his priesthood since.

A good policy then, I wish all the Orthodox Churches would adopt it.

 

[ConstantineTG]

One problem with the current situation in Ukraine is that it is cloaked in an aura of political legitimacy since the new president won what by all international observer accounts was a free and democratic election.

From what I’ve seen myself, it would appear that the Ukrainian electorate have a way to go before they realize that elections can be a dangerous tool in the hands of the politically naive. Free choices do not mean that every choice is harmless. One may vote a party in to one’s overall national detriment - as the electorate there truly did.

Alex

Sounds like the same situation in the Philippines. I sympathize with the Ukrainians

 

[ConstantineTG]

A good policy then, I wish all the Orthodox Churches would adopt it.

Indeed. We also had a Protestant minister run for president twice. He believed he was some sort of political messiah. Glad he didn’t win.

In the words of the Bishops of the Philippines, they believe political office conflicts with with the duties of clergy and thus cannot allow for any clergy of the Church to even run for public office while also functioning as clergy. I think the CBCP was kind enough not to laicize him outright.

 

[KyivAndrew]

Hey all. It actually involves more than just political office in Ukraine and decision-making. In post-communist Ukraine, the Ukrainian national-democrats’ efforts to get rid of "politychna nedotorkanist’ " or “Political Immunity” from criminal investigation for members of parliament failed during the Orange Revolution so now, after the head of the Donetsk clan Yanukovych has become president, the status of all deputies being immune to any and all prosecution or criminal claims will probably remain written in stone, especially for those deputies who belong to Yanukovych’s Regions political party, one prominent member of which is the aforesaid Russian Orthodox Metropolitan of Odesa Ahanfanhel.

risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/confessional/interchurch_relations/37743/

So, speaking in general here to parliamentary members in authority – tax evasion, graft, breaking the law, etc. – all may be made use of by members of parliament without any real consequence unfortunately (especially if one belongs to the party in power) for which the average person in Ukraine, Orthodox or Catholic or other, has to suffer.

So the question of political office for clerics is even more loaded, unfortunately.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Hey all. It actually involves more than just political office in Ukraine and decision-making. In post-communist Ukraine, the Ukrainian national-democrats’ efforts to get rid of "politychna nedotorkanist’ " or “Political Immunity” from criminal investigation for members of parliament failed during the Orange Revolution so now, after the head of the Donetsk clan Yanukovych has become president, the status of all deputies being immune to any and all prosecution or criminal claims will probably remain written in stone, especially for those deputies who belong to Yanukovych’s Regions political party, one prominent member of which is the aforesaid Russian Orthodox Metropolitan of Odesa Ahanfanhel.

risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/confessional/interchurch_relations/37743/

So, speaking in general here to parliamentary members in authority – tax evasion, graft, breaking the law, etc. – all may be made use of by members of parliament without any real consequence unfortunately (especially if one belongs to the party in power) for which the average person in Ukraine, Orthodox or Catholic or other, has to suffer.

So the question of political office for clerics is even more loaded, unfortunately.

This is a very common problem around the world. Sad really. Sometimes I can’t believe how countries like Canada manage to do much better. We’re far from perfect here, but surely its not as bad as places like Ukraine and the Philippines and other countries suffering from political turmoil.

 

[KyivAndrew]

This is a very common problem around the world. Sad really. Sometimes I can’t believe how countries like Canada manage to do much better. We’re far from perfect here, but surely its not as bad as places like Ukraine and the Philippines and other countries suffering from political turmoil.

Yep…The Great White North, despite its problems, is really, really heads above some places. (Don’t even bother asking how difficult health care for the ill, elderly, orphans, can be over there). Makes one very thankful. Indeed, Ukrainian-Canadians took the first steps after the collapse of communism in trying to help Ukrainian orphanages turn a page from the old communist school of “caring” so to speak for the parentless. Communism really, really did damage the psyche of many peoples.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Yep…The Great White North, despite its problems, is really, really heads above some places. (Don’t even bother asking how difficult health care for the ill, elderly, orphans, can be over there). Makes one very thankful. Indeed, Ukrainian-Canadians took the first steps after the collapse of communism in trying to help Ukrainian orphanages turn a page from the old communist school of “caring” so to speak for the parentless. Communism really, really did damage the psyche of many peoples.

Yes - everything I’ve ever seen points to this unfortunate conclusion. It should be studied in earnest.

Alex

 

[ConstantineTG]

But you know what, what countries like the Ukraine and mine (the Philippines) have heads and shoulders above the freedom and relative peace the industrialized nations have like Canada is faith. Does the poor conditions make people turn to God more? Or is it just that most people in richer nations get blinded by the money and turn their backs on God?

 

[The_Reginator]

But you know what, what countries like the Ukraine and mine (the Philippines) have heads and shoulders above the freedom and relative peace the industrialized nations have like Canada is faith. Does the poor conditions make people turn to God more? Or is it just that most people in richer nations get blinded by the money and turn their backs on God?

From the Gospel According to Saint Matthew chapter 19:

[24] And again I say to you: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven.
(Douay-Rheims Bible)

It seems that the more temporal things we have the less we think we need God.