Cancelling David Haas

[pnewton]

Frankly it often annoys me that this field is so small and seems to feature the work of the same 10 people over and over,

I already told my wife that when I die, send my notebook to the diocese. I had a distaste for the Psalms put forth by OCP and Oregon Press from the start, so I almost always wrote my own. They are simplistic with a few rules, like, always end on the right note, not some harmony note. (D in the key of D, for example). Avoid unwieldy jumps. Use scales, or follow the notes in the chord. If someone cannot follow after hearing it once, it is too complex. And never, ever repeat the words. Make the music fit the words, not visa versa.

This weekend, I did borrow from Keith Green’s 23rd psalm though. It is worth hearing for those who do not know him.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I understand sexual predators need to be stopped, but they only be stopped by timely reporting.

I hope you also understand the reasons why some victims didn’t “timely report” when this stuff was going on decades ago.

In the report it describes how one of his first alleged victims, who was 13, was taken by the adult who witnessed her coming out of the woods with Haas (where he allegedly raped her) to speak to the priest in charge of the Confirmation retreat where this happened. According to the adult chaperone/ witness, the priest told the girl, “Shame on you. It takes two to tango.”

The adult chaperone/ witness then took the girl to the bishop, who told her, “Yes, I know who you are. It takes two to tango.”

She was 13! The story sounds like something out of “The Keepers”.

I realize that now when such incidents are reported, the Church is more likely to be receptive, having learned from sad experience, but when you make speeches about “timely reporting” it sounds insensitive.

As for separating the songs from the songwriter, normally I am able to do this the same way I am able to look at “Guernica” or a Roman Polanski film without getting all hung up on the way the respective artists treated women or girls. But at Mass it’s a different story for me. It’s a bit extra-squicky because Mass music is supposed to make you think of the Lord and feel holy for prayer. I guess one could simply say a prayer for Haas and for sexual abuse survivors when one heard a song, but I would prefer not to hear them at all.

 

[Genesis315]

Frankly it often annoys me that this field is so small and seems to feature the work of the same 10 people over and over, because a lot of the liturgical music being written and released in the last few decades seems to be just plain boring and basically warmed-over St. Louis Jesuits.

This is why Haas music will not be missed. The same stuff is overly abundant. I remember when the new English Mass translation was announced, I was hoping we’d get some new, better Mass settings. I was amazed how fast they were able to crank out settings sounding just as dated as those from the 70s/80s. Unfortunately, GIA and OCP and their associated sensibilities still have strangleholds on most of the US Catholic world.

 

[Peeps]

I don’t know. He was primarily known as a Catholic composer to my knowledge, and I have no idea how Protestant churches even select their music. I didn’t see anything about it in the articles I read, which apart from the NYT article I posted were mostly Catholic media, but you could Google, I guess.

I’ve played for quite a few denominations over the last 20 years, including Lutherans (Missouri Synod), Congregationalist, Presbyterian, United Methodist, Covenant (Evangelical), Baptist, etc.

I collect their hymnals (need them to prepare for their worship services), and most of them have at least a few of the Haas hymns, along with Haugen hymns.

But before everyone goes off and says, “Bwoo ha ha, that’s a GOOD reason to expunge them from the Catholic hymnals–they’re P-P-Protestant hymns!”–these Protestant hymnals also contain many MANY of the totally Catholic hymns, including hymns written by the ancient Church Fathers, and also pieces of Gregorian chant that are written by Catholics.

I think that many hymnals are “coded messages” of what Christianity is meant to be–ONE Church.

 

[Peeps]

If you become a “name” in the relatively small world of Catholic liturgical composition, you can make a very comfortable living and have ongoing work giving concerts, giving music workshops, running educational programs for music ministers, etc as well as just writing, publishing, recording and releasing songs and getting royalties.

I know so many musicians (full timers), and most of them are in big trouble financially now.

Many churches still aren’t up and running, and those that are have little or no vocal music (recommendations of CDC, which actually make sense to me as a microbiologist!) . That means no choir repertoire selected and no choir practices. There may be soloists, but not necessarily.

There’s just not a lot for a church musician to do! Those who have private lesson students are still teaching–some students have stuck with it.

Workshops, group events (retreats, missions, etc) aren’t being held.

Weddings, funerals–rare, and most are very small, with recorded music.

My organ teacher (in his early 60s) is living off of his social security (early withdrawal) and the very small salary that his tiny Episcopal parish (around 3 doz. peopeople in the congregation) are paying him.

I am just so thankful that my daughter, (the entertainment professional) was intelligent enough to put aside sentimentality about the Big Apple and make the move to a smaller town that is much more “open” (businesses up and running) where she could teach and still have shows, plus everything is so much cheaper for her, AND…she has family nearby JIC.

 

[blackforest]

Is anybody actually going to miss this guy’s works?

In a word, no. But I won’t badmouth his music because I understand bigger the issue that you’re raising here.

As an analogy, I consider Woody Allen and Roman Polanski both talented directors. Given their sexually abusive histories, do I need to stop watching their films? I don’t think watching them is sinful in any direct or even remote way. But something about it makes my conscience feel uncomfortable.

Dylan Farrow wrote a powerful piece about everything her dad did to her, but the link is currently broken. An Open Letter From Dylan Farrow I haven’t watched a Woody Allen movie since reading it.

 

[NevermoreLenore]

eliminating his music because of whatever behavior or misbehavior Mr. Haas has engaged in seems a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black

His ‘misbehaviour’ is assault and rape. It’s egregious.

Whatever. His music should stand on its own merits;

This attitude shouldn’t surprise me, after all, Roman Polanski’s films are widely acclaimed despite his rape of an underage girl. Are his movies great? Yes. That doesn’t mean they should stand alone when their creator is a sexual predator.

it seems a bit pharisaical to cast out his music for his behavior - which was not reflected in the music.

Again, dozens of women were assaulted, including the rape of a 13yo, who DID notify the priest and archbishop directly after the assault, only to be told it was her fault because ‘it takes two to tango’.

Haas has committed the Unforgivable Sin Against Women. The penalty is Damnatio Memoriae.

I’m not sure of your intent here, but it reads as dismissive and derisive of women. Sexual assault destroys the soul, especially when perpetrated by a person of trust. Whilst the sin may be forgiven, the damage done leaves permanent scars.

Which amusingly is playing right into the hands of the cancel culture people. The irony escapes those who do not have cancel culture as a norm; for those who do, it is business as usual.

Nothing amusing about any of this. A serial rapist SHOULD be ‘cancelled’. Full stop.

 

[Anesti33]

I missed the part where he was convicted of serial rape. Could you show me the court documents please.

 

[NevermoreLenore]

:woman_facepalming:t2:

Characters

 

[NevermoreLenore]

Social media lynching, yeah, that’s what’s going on here. There are dozens of women coming forward, many of whom came forward at the time of the assaults but were ignored or themselves blamed. Oh, that’s just Doug, they said. You can be dismissive of the assaults because ‘no conviction’, but that just tells me you don’t understand what it’s like to be assaulted, blamed for the assault when you come forward, and know you are powerless to get help because men write the rules. Unless you’ve been there, you cannot get it, unless you’re willing to empathise and understand the lose-lose position in which the victim finds him/herself. I am far (very far) from a feminist, so please don’t accuse me of that, and I am by nature a skeptic. If it was one or even a few accusations, I’d be suspect. Dozens of women have come forward. There is an established pattern of behaviour.

I will not further engage with you regarding this because clearly you don’t wish to understand. Sexual assault is devastating and finally people are beginning to understand that victims need to be acknowledged, even if legally the statutes of limitation are surpassed. (Not to say the stories should not be vetted, because there absolutely are people who falsely claim victimhood).

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I wouldn’t want to try to make a living at doing liturgical music either, because there are only a tiny handful of people at the top who will actually have a “successful” career, and the rest will be running some music ministry somewhere for low or no pay, or maybe they can get an academic job which is also unlikely to pay much.

There’s a reason why a lot of the liturgical music of the Church gets made by priests and sisters - it’s because their costs are lower. And a number of the laypeople involved used to be priests and sisters, or were on some path in that direction when they stepped off.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If it was one or even a few accusations, I’d be suspect. Dozens of women have come forward. There is an established pattern of behaviour.

Yes, that’s why I’m believing this too, same as with “The Keepers”.

One or two people making an allegation, I’m like, let’s see the evidence.

But several dozen people, and others who aren’t alleging that they were abused but confirm a pattern of inappropriate behavior that everybody apparently just put up with for decades…that’s a case of, as Sen. Inouye said, not being able to find the smoking gun because the room is too full of smoke.

I’m also willing to bet that if this guy was alleged to have been hitting on boys, everybody would all of a sudden believe it. Girls, including underage girls, are just treated like second-class citizens in any kind of clergy abuse discussion. It’s almost like people think it’s normal. It sickens me.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Right, so this is just another social media lynching then. Got it.

This is sick and misogynistic.

 

[Anesti33]

No, people have rights. In these United States, we are innocent until proven guilty. . . .

 

[NevermoreLenore]

I am sorry your outrage has blinded you to Christian charity and prudence.

This is uncharitable. If anyone unlikely to be ‘blinded…to Christian charity and prudence’ it’s @Tis_Bearself, who I have found to always be fair and charitable. I don’t agree with her all the time, but she’s always fair and always kind.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I am also not prone to “outrage”. As an attorney, that doesn’t serve me well. But it doesn’t take a weatherman to see that when you have 40 complaints you have what we would call in the trade a “significant risk” that it’s not just all in somebody’s head. Nor is there much to be gained by “me too” when it comes to David Haas. These are not actresses looking for publicity.

 

[27lw]

Hmm.

Why not use the actual music / texts intended for the Mass? AKA the Propers?
Here’s a nice link for the Propers in English.

https://americangradual.org/ag/introit_offertory_communion_2019_12_27T20_08_59Z.pdf

 

[pnewton]

I hope you also understand the reasons why some victims didn’t “timely report” when this stuff was going on decades ago.

Yes, I am sympathetic to the psychological barriers to reporting abuse, for the adult victims as well as those abused as children. However, that does not change the arrow of time which only moves forward. What is true, what is knowable, will always fade with time. So while there are many reasons one may have for not reporting a sexual abuse, the results are the same when a third party does not report it. It goes on, and what actually happened becomes unknowable.