Canon law 1249-1253

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Why bang your head against the wall?

No one is forcing you to eat meat on Fridays. If you think the bishops were lax when they eliminated the requirement, impose it on yourself.

Problem solved.

 

[underacloud]

Why bang your head against the wall?

No one is forcing you to eat meat on Fridays. If you think the bishops were lax when they eliminated the requirement, impose it on yourself.

Problem solved.

Yes.

There’s really no need to trouble yourself over this. You can easily appease your conscience by abstaining every Friday. Or you can appease your conscience by trusting your bishops. God will not punish you for either of these choices. If the bishops are somehow wrong in what they’ve done, then it’s on them, not on the laity who rightly trust their bishops to lead them. God is not waiting to catch you out on any technicality.

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

to determine more particularly the manner of abstinence by restricting it to a few days a year (Ash Wednesday, the Fridays of Lent, and Good Friday–the last being part of Triduum rather than Lent)

Well then what is this about.

 

[underacloud]

to determine more particularly the manner of abstinence by restricting it to a few days a year (Ash Wednesday, the Fridays of Lent, and Good Friday–the last being part of Triduum rather than Lent)

Well then what is this about.

It is self explanatory.

If you do not understand it, please talk to your priest.

If you don’t trust your own conference of bishops, why would you trust internet strangers instead?

Talk to your priest.

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

It is self explanatory.

If you do not understand it, please talk to your priest.

If you don’t trust your own conference of bishops, why would you trust internet strangers instead?

Talk to your priest.

Well he isn’t an internet stranger he is jimmy akin, he appeared on catholic answers many times.

 

[underacloud]

Well he isn’t an internet stranger he is jimmy akin, he appeared on catholic answers many times.

I mean this forum - this thread.

If you will not trust your bishops, why trust us in this thread?

Please, talk to your priest!

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

I am afraid it would take too much time and plus doing this is more specific, I mean if I could text a priest I would but.

 

[underacloud]

Too much time for what?

More specific? The bishops’ statement is very specific. It is very clear.

 

[FrDavid96]

“The conference of bishops can determine more precisely the observance of fast and abstinence as well as substitute other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety, in whole or in part, for abstinence and fast.”

I just don’t understand how this contrasts with this, do they have the authority to do this?

"22. Friday itself remains a special day of penitential observance throughout the year, a time when those who seek perfection will be mindful of their personal sins and the sins of mankind which they are called upon to help expiate in union with Christ Crucified.

1. Friday should be in each week something of what Lent is in the entire year. For this reason we urge all to prepare for that weekly Easter that comes with each Sunday by freely making of every Friday a day of self-denial and mortification in prayerful remembrance of the passion of Jesus Christ"

It seems like penance is no longer necessary in my opinion since they are freely making it a period of self denial, are we obliged to do this, I feel like we are not.

Yes, they do have the authority to do it.

I do not understand why you insist that there is a conflict where the Church sees no conflict.

The penance is still necessary. It is still required.

Just because they urge us to freely make every Friday a day of self-denial etc. that does not mean that it’s optional. It’s like urging us to make the most of attending Sunday Mass.

Again, there is no conflict.

 

[FrDavid96]

Well this just made more doubts float on up:

Thus we conclude that the American bishops have exercised their competence, later acknowledged by canon 1253 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law, to determine more particularly the manner of abstinence by restricting it to a few days a year (Ash Wednesday, the Fridays of Lent, and Good Friday–the last being part of Triduum rather than Lent) and by recommending the continued practice of abstinence on other Fridays. Rome confirmed this document, and thus it is the law for Latin Catholics in the United States.

and the other link the one labeled more on friday penance just makes me more confused, why can’t God just come down from heaven and sort all this out without making me want to bang my head against a wall.

Friday penance is still required. It is still obligatory.

The form which that penance may take is what has changed.

We are no longer required to abstain from meat as the sole means of observing the Friday penance. We can now substitute other forms of penance.

 

[FrDavid96]

to determine more particularly the manner of abstinence by restricting it to a few days a year (Ash Wednesday, the Fridays of Lent, and Good Friday–the last being part of Triduum rather than Lent)

Well then what is this about.

It means that abstaining from meat (as obligatory) only applies on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

On other Fridays of the year, the requirement of penance remains. The individual Catholics are free to substitute some other forms of penance (in place of abstaining from meat) on other Fridays.

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

It means that abstaining from meat (as obligatory) only applies on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

On other Fridays of the year, the requirement of penance remains. The individual Catholics are free to substitute some other forms of penance (in place of abstaining from meat) on other Fridays.

“Thus we conclude that the American bishops have exercised their competence, later acknowledged by canon 1253 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law, to determine more particularly the manner of abstinence by restricting it to a few days a year (Ash Wednesday, the Fridays of Lent, and Good Friday–the last being part of Triduum rather than Lent) and by recommending the continued practice of abstinence on other Fridays. Rome confirmed this document, and thus it is the law for Latin Catholics in the United States.”

I reread this and I found out I made a mistake and that abstinence is only required on Good Friday, Ash Wednesday, and other Fridays of Lent, ha whoops, but also what does the word Triduum mean, and what does he mean by it in this paragraph.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

The Triduum is the three days beginning the evening of Holy Thursday and running through Good Friday, Holy Saturday, and Easter Sunday.

I believe the reference you had said something about abstinence on the Fridays of Lent and Good Friday and then specified that Good Friday wasn’t part of Lent, it was part of the Triduum. It’s still a day of abstinence from meat (and Good Friday, unlike the Fridays of Lent, is also a day of fasting).

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

Friday penance is still required. It is still obligatory.

The form which that penance may take is what has changed.

We are no longer required to abstain from meat as the sole means of observing the Friday penance. We can now substitute other forms of penance.

Can you show me where it is said to be required, when they said

**“The conference of bishops can determine more precisely the observance of fast and abstinence” **

I see it as saying they can make up the rules on fast and abstinence.

"as well as substitute other forms of penance"

This basically says, and I see it as that part being optional to substitute and something they can do as

** especially works of charity and exercises of piety, in whole or in part, for abstinence and fast.**

and this part says, they can substitute other works instead, fully or partially for abstinence and fasting

I don’t know, I am having such a hard time understanding it…

 

[FrDavid96]

Can you show me where it is said to be required, when they said

**“The conference of bishops can determine more precisely the observance of fast and abstinence” **

I see it as saying they can make up the rules on fast and abstinence.

"as well as substitute other forms of penance"

This basically says, and I see it as that part being optional to substitute and something they can do as

** especially works of charity and exercises of piety, in whole or in part, for abstinence and fast.**

and this part says, they can substitute other works instead, fully or partially for abstinence and fasting

I don’t know, I am having such a hard time understanding it…

OK. Let’s try this. Just start all over again.

Here’s how it works (note that this applies to the United States):

Every Friday is a day of penance in the Church. This penance is required of all Catholics, on all Fridays, except those that are Solemnities (for example, if the Assumption is a Friday, it’s not a day of penance).

The normative form (the one in the law) is to abstain from meat, so this is the “default” form of penance. An individual Catholic can choose for himself (without need to consult a priest or anyone else) to substitute other forms of penance in place of avoiding meat.

This substitution only applies outside of Lent. For the Fridays during Lent, Catholics are still required to abstain from meat.

Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are days of fasting (as well as abstinence).

Some notes:

One needs to understand the difference between these 3 terms:
Penance: acts of self-denial or self-giving done in reparation for sin.
Abstinence: avoiding something in particular (in this case, meat)
Fasting: eating a small quantity of food.

Note that the words “fasting” and “abstinence” are not the same thing.

All Fridays are days of penance.
All Fridays during Lent are days of penance and abstinence.
Only Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are days of penance and abstinence and fasting.

 

[FrDavid96]

It means that abstaining from meat (as obligatory) only applies on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. The words “and other Fridays during Lent” were missing from this sentence.

On other Fridays of the year, the requirement of penance remains. The individual Catholics are free to substitute some other forms of penance (in place of abstaining from meat) on other Fridays outside of Lent.