Canon Law about RCIC for Lutheran Baptised Kid?

[John_Lilburne]

I am confused by your post, what exactly are you trying to say?

You asked about by post #13. It was suggested that the child did not need to wait for his parent to be confirmed, for him to do his Reception. I said it was the bishop’s decision. But the bishop might establish a policy. He may have guidelines from his Conference of Bishops.

You write that Canon Law does not require the sacraments of confirmation and first communion at once. Canon 846 requires the liturgical books to be followed. The RCIA liturgical book does, generally, require these sacraments in the one ceremony, both for adults and for “children who have reached catechetical age” (USA GIRM n. 215-217, 256). For adults an exception is mentioned in n. 215 “adults are not to be baptized without receiving confirmation immediately afterwards, unless some serious reason stands in the way”. Danger of death comes to mind. A lay person could baptise, but not confirm.

For Reception into full communion it requires Eucharist and confirmation together or close together. So Canon Law, in requiring the liturgical books be followed, does require confirmation and first communion in the one ceremony, some of the time.

 

[THurifer2]

Any baptized person over the age of reason who seeks full communion with the Catholic Church makes a profession of faith, receives Eucharist, and Confirmation all at the same time.

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What if this child were a 5 year old? The church says the age of reason is 7…Obiviously they wouldn’t be having first communion but I think this is murky territory.

another example would be a child baptized as a lutheran and soon after the baptism the parents leave lutheranism and become catholics…would this child need to go through RCIC when they came the age of reason? if not then why does the child who is 7?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

But at this point this ‘child’ is technically a non-Catholic ‘adult’.

I guess what makes this so odd to me is that if the school and parish staff had realized that this child, whom the father apparently intended to raise as a Catholic, was not a Catholic back when he was enrolled in school as a five-year-old, then the situation could have been different.

The father could have been advised that he (the father) would have to be fully initiated as a condition for his children to become members of the Church. At that point the father could possibly have been confirmed prior to the older child’s seventh birthday. Or the provision could have been made to receive the children into the Church even without the father being fully initiated.

Had the child in question been received into the Church prior to reaching his ‘liturgical adulthood’ then he would be receiving his first sacraments at the same time as his classmates.

There are two different things in this situation.

One is this notion “that he (the father) would have to be fully initiated as a condition for his children to become members of the Church”. He needs to be a Baptized (Catholic Baptism certificate) and practicing Catholic. Now I’m not saying that he should not encouraged to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation! But it’s not required for him to Baptize and raise his children Catholic.

Second, the RCIA for children (again there is no such thing as RCIC) is intended for un-Baptized children of catechetical age who would be catechumens.

There should not be an RCIA like process for Baptized children. Children of catechetical age should be placed in the proper age group with the other Baptized Catholic children and in their proper age group for Sacramental preparation.

Nothing in church law requires that a validly Baptized child needs to receive Confirmation and First Holy Communion at the same time. They may prepare and receive First Holy Communion this year and then prepare for and receive Confirmation two years later.

It does require that an un-Baptized child (Catechumen) over the age of Reason be Baptized, Confirmed and receive Holy Communion at the same liturgy.

 

[puzzleannie]

What if this child were a 5 year old? The church says the age of reason is 7…Obiviously they wouldn’t be having first communion but I think this is murky territory.

another example would be a child baptized as a lutheran and soon after the baptism the parents leave lutheranism and become catholics…would this child need to go through RCIC when they came the age of reason? if not then why does the child who is 7?

question has been answered several times
if the parents are being received into the Church, their children are received at the same time, with the rites applicable to their age. Infants (under age 7) by the rite of Infant Baptism, adults (age 7 and over) through RCIA. If baptized, infants need no formal rite, other than notation in parish records, adults (over 7) through profession of Faith, Confirmation and Eucharist, according to RCIA.

there is no such thing as RCIC. There is the RICA adapted for Children, called the Children’s Catechumenate. The catechetical instruction is part of the process, and for all is ideally done with their peers. But it is only part of the process. The rites and preparation for them are the rest of it and they are celebrated according the Rites as adapted by national bishops’ councils and administered by the local ordinary.

the question has been completely answered every which way until Tuesday, and it is to be hoped someone has pity on the poor parents and sits down and explains the situation to them.

 

[SMHW]

question has been answered several times
if the parents are being received into the Church, their children are received at the same time, with the rites applicable to their age. Infants (under age 7) by the rite of Infant Baptism, adults (age 7 and over) through RCIA. If baptized, infants need no formal rite, other than notation in parish records, adults (over 7) through profession of Faith, Confirmation and Eucharist, according to RCIA.

Again, I think the reason that this particular case is confusing to many people is because the father will not be “received” into the Church in the orginary laymen’s understanding of the word ‘received’. He’s already a Catholic. Most people don’t think of adult confimation of a baptized Catholic as ‘reception’ into the Church. (I suspect most people don’t think of confirmation of Catholic preteens/teens as initiation either.)

The question in this case is what is the diocesan policy of accepting “infant” baptized children into the church when the parent(s) is/are not confirmed. If confirmation is necessary then nothing would be different in this case. If confirmation is not necessary then, (if parent, school staff, and parish staff been on the ball), the child would already be noted as a Catholic in the parish records and would now be treated as any other second grader for purposes of sacrament reception.

Of course no matter what happens this child gets to receive his First Communion. And in my personal opinion, getting to do so at the Easter Vigil is far more memorable than with a bunch of other second graders. But it seems that many parents perceive having a child receive sacraments at a different time than the classmates as a kind of punishment.

 

[SanClemente]

I’m looking for three things:

1. References in canon law or any church documents addressing the why a validly baptized child receiving good catechetical instruction must go through RCIC and receive First Eucharist and Confirmation at the Easter Vigil (instead of with his peers.)
2. A plan of action for the much younger sibling (also baptized Lutheran) to avoid the same problem.
3. Some higher-level information I can share with the mother to help her understand why the Catholics have this requirement. She’s a bit dismayed at the sudden hard line.

I want to thank Mr. Lilburne for the references, especially for my third request. However, most of the responses seem to be personal opinions, not references to church documents. I’m working my way through the Canon Law <vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM> but I was hoping to get a few pointers to the pertinent canons, rites, encyclicals or doctrines. I welcome any other concrete references.

A few other notes:
a. Yes, the school staff messed up.
b. I did speak to the DRE, and was told it was a matter defined in canon law. That’s why I’m asking for references.
c. While I don’t see this as a “hard line”, the inquiring Lutheran mom does. This doesn’t appear to her to be “no problem, just some juggling”, but instead looks like a legalistic mandate specified by a distant hierarchy. I’m not surprised that it looks like that to a Lutheran. This is now a big obstacle to her inquiries into our faith.

Or the provision could have been made to receive the children into the Church even without the father being fully initiated.

Had the child in question been received into the Church prior to reaching his ‘liturgical adulthood’ then he would be receiving his first sacraments at the same time as his classmates.

This is my second request. How does this happen?

Thanks in advance for your wisdom,

SanClemente

 

[puzzleannie]

I This is my second request. How does this happen?

Thanks in advance for your wisdom,

SanClemente

as has been stated several times, poor communication between parents and school, school and parish, and parents and parish. a common failing. also the initial paperwork for school registration was probably handled by a clerical person who is not “up on” RCIA matters because it is not part of her job description. the situation for this family has been resolved so I am still puzzled why all the concern. OP was by no means clear on the status of the parents, and as is very commong, the story changed as more details came out.

this is what usually happens, parents are not forthcoming, entirely honest, or dont give details because they don’t know they are important, and clerical staff does not think to ask because it does not affect the matter at hand, ie school registration. repeat, the person who interviewed the parent preparing for confirmation should have ascertained at that time the status of everyone in the family and endeavored to meet all their needs.

 

[puzzleannie]

postscript

teacher from the school has just brought in a family for me to meet, because while the child has been attending for 3 years and preparing for 1st communion with her class in April, it has just been discovered that she was never baptized. evidently it was a family court matter and “papers” have only now been presented because only now has the court released her documentation.

so between the principal, pastor and I we are trying to explain the situation, in Spanish no less, to the foster parents. please pray that the child not be delayed in her Christian initation just because the adults were not on top of things.

 

[John_Lilburne]

How someone under 7 is received into the Catholic Church:

According to the New Commentary on the Code of Canon Law, (one editor is John P. Beal) page 63, by a parent or guardian communicating orally or in writing to the pastor or Ordinary their intention that the infant be received in the Catholic Church and raised in the Catholic religion.

I do not understand the basis for this. A footnote to this statement is J. Huels, “The Valid Minister of Catholic Baptism and Receiving an Infant into Full Communion,” in Roman Replies and CLSA Advisory Opinions 1999, pages 76-79.

The part of Canon Law being discussed is canon 11.

I have not found much on the Rite of Reception into Full Communion of the Catholic Church in the Code of Canon Law. Canon 846 says the liturgical books are to be faithfully followed. The RCIA book is one of these liturgical books, so this has been the basis for me saying it is the bishop’s decision who he receives into full communion.

 

[John_Lilburne]

Another book that may be useful: When Other Christians Become Catholic by Paul Turner, S.T.D., ISBN:978-0-8146-6216-8, at litpress.org/Detail.aspx?ISBN=9780814662168 .

 

[puzzleannie]

the rite of baptism for infants provides for every contingency, as does the RCIA, it is up to the pastor to apply the relevant provisions, and for those overseeing the preparation of the candidates to follow through. It is not necessary to be a canon lawyer, it is necessary to ask someone who is the expert, namely the pastor, or for him to refer to the bishop, if there is a question.

 

[jbebeau]

Hello all, I am new to the forums, but thought I would contribute my thoughts.

These types of situations are becoming more frequent as the years pass. Having been involved in RCIA for a number of years and been on staff at a couple of parishes I have seen this before. The situation presented suggests that the proper course would be for the child to go through the normal rites leading up reception into the Church, and then on the Easter Vigil make his profession of faith and then receive the other sacraments of initiation. Doing this with his father seems to be a wonderful suggestion. However the mother does not see this to be ideal and the judgments of the parents must be taken into account, as they are the first teachers of their children. If the normal route foreseen by the Church isn’t possible, for what ever reason, other possibilities can be followed.