Canon of the Bible.

[jimmy]

I am currently listening to part 2 of the debate between Gerry Matatics and James White on Sola Scriptura.

Matatics brought up the fact that the bible did not have a table of contents originally. White admitted to this. I was curious whether it is possible to be sure that any of the books of the new testament are God breathed. Is it possible that none of the books are God breathed?

I am saying that the only way you can know if any of the new testament is inspired is because the Catholic Church said so.

Any thoughts?

 

[oat_soda]

if you recieved a copy of romans from st. paul himself during the first century would you need st. paul to tell you it was inspired? or would you not make a decision until the church formed a council to decide if it was or not?

 

[jimmy]

oat soda:

if you recieved a copy of romans from st. paul himself during the first century would you need st. paul to tell you it was inspired? or would you not make a decision until the church formed a council to decide if it was or not?

Just because saint Paul wrote it does not mean it is inspired It may be completely true but it may not be inspired. Karl Keatings books may be completely true on every teaching but they are not inspired writings.

If Saint Paul would have given me a copy of Romans I would have read it probably like I would read something written by Padre Pio or something. I would not think of it as inspired scripture because it was not part of scripture yet. I probably would have thought, “this was written by a great man of God”. I probably would have thought the same thing about the writings of Barnabas though.

I accept the writings of Paul as inspired because the church has told me they are inspired.

I am not attacking the bible. I am just saying that there is no way to know what books are inspired without the church. Why aren’t Clements letters inspired word of God? Why aren’t Justins writings or Ignatious’ writings inspired? The protestants are lost without the church to guide them.

 

[mayra_hart]

to trust the bible is to trust the authority of the church which guarantees the bible.historically, the catholic church used her authority to determined which books belonged to the bible, and to assure us that everythingin the bible is inspired. apart from the church, we simply have no way of knowing either truth. god bless you all

 

[jimmy]

Thanks for the responses oat and mayra, it seems like not too many people enjoy my thread.

 

[edwinG]

jimmy:

I am currently listening to part 2 of the debate between Gerry Matatics and James White on Sola Scriptura.

Matatics brought up the fact that the bible did not have a table of contents originally. White admitted to this. I was curious whether it is possible to be sure that any of the books of the new testament are God breathed. Is it possible that none of the books are God breathed?

I am saying that the only way you can know if any of the new testament is inspired is because the Catholic Church said so.

Any thoughts?

Hi,
Good question. Answer, I don’t know. Thoughts. I believe we know the old testament is true because Jesus accepted it and taught from it. Now Jesus is not physically with us to say in a voice the whole world can hear: ( and would the world accept anyway) But Jesus sent His replacement, the Holy Spirit, and individually we should listen to Him.
Some quick tips for hearing the Holy Spirit.
Stay in a simple routine. If anything unusual happens you know God has a hand in it.
Pray, and dont pray the same prayers over and over. Let the Holy Spirt enter your prayer life. Check anything received against the Holy Scriptures.
Important information received will come in a truly glorious fashion. Information comes cross referenced, and sometimes in segments. Answers are in every conceivable place and activity. If you are looking for an answer about a certain circumstance the answer will probably be in this enviroment.
This is very difficult, but the less you have to rely on , the more you have Jesus. The simplest way to understand this is through an insurance policy. I am not asking anyone to give up their insurance policy. It is a highly individual thing depending on your faith,( and your pocket) which in itself is a gift of God. But if you have a car insurance policy you tend to drive your car, trusting in the insurance policy. Ask your self this question. How would I drive my car if I did not have an insurance policy? If you would need to change something about your driving or the use of the car then you have trust in the policy. ( I hear that car brakes are now so good that instead of running over people you can stop on top of them.) How would you drive your car if it had no brakes. Maybe road accidents would lessen. The ultimate question is " The more difficult it is to be rid of the more it means to you" At all times we should be ready to "follow Christ"http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwin

 

[jimmy]

edwinG:

Hi,
Good question. Answer, I don’t know. Thoughts. I believe we know the old testament is true because Jesus accepted it and taught from it. Now Jesus is not physically with us to say in a voice the whole world can hear: ( and would the world accept anyway) But Jesus sent His replacement, the Holy Spirit, and individually we should listen to Him.
Some quick tips for hearing the Holy Spirit.
Stay in a simple routine. If anything unusual happens you know God has a hand in it.
Pray, and dont pray the same prayers over and over. Let the Holy Spirt enter your prayer life. Check anything received against the Holy Scriptures.
Important information received will come in a truly glorious fashion. Information comes cross referenced, and sometimes in segments. Answers are in every conceivable place and activity. If you are looking for an answer about a certain circumstance the answer will probably be in this enviroment.
This is very difficult, but the less you have to rely on , the more you have Jesus. The simplest way to understand this is through an insurance policy. I am not asking anyone to give up their insurance policy. It is a highly individual thing depending on your faith,( and your pocket) which in itself is a gift of God. But if you have a car insurance policy you tend to drive your car, trusting in the insurance policy. Ask your self this question. How would I drive my car if I did not have an insurance policy? If you would need to change something about your driving or the use of the car then you have trust in the policy. ( I hear that car brakes are now so good that instead of running over people you can stop on top of them.) How would you drive your car if it had no brakes. Maybe road accidents would lessen. The ultimate question is " The more difficult it is to be rid of the more it means to you" At all times we should be ready to "follow Christ"http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwin

edwinG, welcome to the forums and welcome to the thread.

Why do you say not to pray the same prayers over and over? I enjoy the Our Father and the Hail Mary quite a bit. I feel that those are two of the greatest prayers.

Thankyou for your response.

 

[Maccabees]

oat soda:

if you recieved a copy of romans from st. paul himself during the first century would you need st. paul to tell you it was inspired? or would you not make a decision until the church formed a council to decide if it was or not?

Well actually not not all of Saint Paul’s letters made it into the canon he probably made many letters that were not used as scripture.
The letters that made it were determined by the early church to be useful in supporting the churchs rule of faith.

Not everything Madison wrote made it into the Constitution either. The Constituion was likewise ultimately decided by our nation’s founding fathers.
IF the constition was not decided unilaterlly how could the Bible be.
Unlike what you think the Bible did not just fall from the sky.
There are many book attributed to Paul that ultimately did not make the canon ie Acts of Paul . After the apsotles died and Paul could no longer hand you his letters as you niavely assume. He wrote many of his letters while in Jail they were delivered by People who were not Paul. Who besides the church who knew authentic tradtions from fraud could point to one book attributed to Paul as false and the other book attributed to Paul as true.

Here is blurb by a protestant authro about Paul’s missing book mentioned in the Bible.
In Paul’s Letter to the Colossians, a letter of the Apostle to the assembly (biblical meaning = church) in Laodicea is being mentioned, which contained a matter of importance to the Colossians.

“And when this epistle (Greek = letter) is read among you, cause it to be read also in the church (original text = assembly) of the Laodiceans, and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.” (Colossians 4:16)

We look in vain in the New Testament for this letter to the Laodiceans from Paul. Despite great efforts to find this letter, it must be considered lost, although attempts were made to identify the letter to the Ephesians with the missing letter to the Laodiceans. However, this hypothesis has no probability at all: “because it cannot be explained how the address to the Laodiceans disappeared, and that particular letter came into circulation as the Letter to the Ephesians.” (P. Feine, Introduction to the New Testament)

I guess if Paul handed you this letter you would have canonized it. But apparently those in charge did not agree with you that any letter from Paul should be part of the Bible.
You have no way of knowing the Books attributed to Paul that did make it to the Bible are actuallly from Paul apart from the catholic church. Quite a quandry isn’t it. An infalliable book whose contents are decided upon by the catholic church.