Card Burke consoles boy who wants to receive Communion.

[MorEphrem]

His eyes shed tears because of raw jealousy.

Really? He can partake of jealousy? But how, he doesn’t understand that yet; he’s not 7.

 

[triumphguy]

Really? He can partake of jealousy? But how, he doesn’t understand that yet; he’s not 7.

'Cos his Big Bro is getting attention and he isn’t.

Let’s not make this into a “thing.”

Perhaps he’s the holiest little boy in the world - but probably not

 

[babochka]

From some reading on the internet - the older brother received his First Communion. Younger brother didn’t.

Younger brother has a little jealous crying jag. Gets some attention. All is well.

Not really a question of his desire to receive the Eucharist (would that it were so), more a question of his desire to get the same attention his brother did.

How do we know? How can we possibly know these things based on this picture?

Besides, so what if he wants it because his older brother got it? If he’s growing up in a pious family, he no doubt understands that his brother is receiving a profoundly special gift and he wants it, too. Adults awaiting full communion with the church often feel the same way, although it is (usually) expressed in a more mature manner.

My own 2 year old (who does receive Holy Communion every Sunday), used to cry, “I want Jesus!” when I took him to daily Mass. Father and I solved that problem by giving him Jesus. Now, every time we go to Mass, he asks me, “Can I have Jesus today?”

We give young children so little credit for understanding, even though they are so very close to our Lord.

 

[otjm]

Really? He can partake of jealousy? But how, he doesn’t understand that yet; he’s not 7.

It would appear that you have not raised children; or perhaps you have, and they were little angels.

I have seen far, far more temper tantrums by children of his apparent age than I have seen by his older brother.

Been there, got the t-shirt, paid the college tuition…

And from the look on his mothers face, she has seen this before too.

 

[otjm]

How do we know? How can we possibly know these things based on this picture?

Besides, so what if he wants it because his older brother got it? If he’s growing up in a pious family, he no doubt understands that his brother is receiving a profoundly special gift and he wants it, too. Adults awaiting full communion with the church often feel the same way, although it is (usually) expressed in a more mature manner.

My own 2 year old (who does receive Holy Communion every Sunday), used to cry, “I want Jesus!” when I took him to daily Mass. Father and I solved that problem by giving him Jesus. Now, every time we go to Mass, he asks me, “Can I have Jesus today?”

We give young children so little credit for understanding, even though they are so very close to our Lord.

I have no problem with infant reception; the Eastern Catholic churches practice it.

I also have seen kids throw fits. It might well be this child is a pious little angel. It may well be that he has a good understanding of the Eucharist.

And given the propensity among children to tantrums when an older sibling gets something they can’t have, I would say from personal experience it is far more likely a fit and tantrum than a deep sorrow.

In one of the earlier comments in this thread it was mentioned that there was information outside this thread leaning towards the tantrum side of things. I am not suggesting that the child could not form the requisite intent; just that it is far more likely the picture is about something else.

And I am aware that some children are close to Our Lord. And others - eh, not so much.

 

[triumphguy]

How do we know? How can we possibly know these things based on this picture?

Besides, so what if he wants it because his older brother got it? If he’s growing up in a pious family, he no doubt understands that his brother is receiving a profoundly special gift and he wants it, too. Adults awaiting full communion with the church often feel the same way, although it is (usually) expressed in a more mature manner.

My own 2 year old (who does receive Holy Communion every Sunday), used to cry, “I want Jesus!” when I took him to daily Mass. Father and I solved that problem by giving him Jesus. Now, every time we go to Mass, he asks me, “Can I have Jesus today?”

We give young children so little credit for understanding, even though they are so very close to our Lord.

As I’ve posted a couple of times, my comments were based on the facebook page not the picture.

 

[malphono]

It would appear that you have not raised children; or perhaps you have, and they were little angels.

I have seen far, far more temper tantrums by children of his apparent age than I have seen by his older brother.

Been there, got the t-shirt, paid the college tuition…

And from the look on his mothers face, she has seen this before too.

Just MHO, but I see neither a “temper tantrum” nor “raw jealousy” nor, for that matter, even any hint of embarrassment on the mother’s face in the linked photo in the OP, or in her words as quoted in the link. To the contrary, the photo shows her and the people around smiling.

It seems to me that [post=11075620]the previous poster’s[/post] comment was quite appropriate. Most of the Eastern & Oriental Churches (but unfortunately, not all, due to persistent latinizations in this particular area), administer the 3 Sacraments of Initiation (Baptism, Christmation, and the Eucharist, in that order) at the same time. That the Latin Church chooses to do otherwise is simply a matter of discipline, but the practice of infant communion is neither wrong nor is it ahistorical.
.

 

[capablanca911]

On the other hand, the Church has felt it wise to withhold the sacrament from those who are too young to understand its implications. Like those 3 and 4 and 5 year olds who want to do “what big brother did”.

And having raised children, and having observed a multitude of others, I would not look at a picture like that and presume from only his reactions that the child was in any way rightly disposed. In head, heart, or spirit.

As a parent of three, my experience is that-- ceteris paribus–parents know their kids intentions.

Louis [the child] was so sad that he couldn’t receive 1st Communion; he was in tears. When he said hi to Cardinal Burke, I explained to the Cardinal why he was sad and Louis just leaned into him and cried. His Eminence embraced him so lovingly and told him, “**don’t worry, your first Communion will come soon enough!”**I love that Louis poured out his sorrow to him like the shepherd that Cardinal Burke is… so dear!

“… the Church has felt it wise to withhold the sacrament from those who are too young to understand its implications…”

The Church has felt no such thing. The Western Rite has felt such a thing, and then** not for the first one thousand one hundred years of Christendom in the West. **

 

[capablanca911]

His eyes shed tears in reflection of his soul for its spiritual starvation . Ample reason for the Latin Church to revert to a more theologically-correct history.

Anyway, more seriously, the motivation of a child wanting to receive because “big brother doing so” is not a bad motivation. Adults can go to church for this reason and that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s bad, it is just a more basic motivation that God is using to move them closer to Him. The fact that a child is denied the ultimate mercy of God simply because he doesn’t “understand” it because it hasn’t reached the magical age of 7 is bogus - I still can’t say I understand what I receive and I’m triple the age of reason and studying to be a priest.

This!

I want to buy you a beer MorEphrem! Thanks for making my day.

 

[capablanca911]

Just MHO, but I see neither a “temper tantrum” nor “raw jealousy” nor, for that matter, even any hint of embarrassment on the mother’s face in the linked photo in the OP, or in her words as quoted in the link. To the contrary, the photo shows her and the people around smiling.

It seems to me that [post=11075620]the previous poster’s[/post] comment was quite appropriate. Most of the Eastern & Oriental Churches (but unfortunately, not all, due to persistent latinizations in this particular area), administer the 3 Sacraments of Initiation (Baptism, Christmation, and the Eucharist, in that order) at the same time. That the Latin Church chooses to do otherwise is simply a matter of discipline, but the practice of infant communion is neither wrong nor is it ahistorical.
.

And the Latin Church has been communing infants longer in the West than it hasn’t.

preachersinstitute.com/2012/12/08/infant-communion-the-ancient-western-tradition/

 

[dans0622]

What was there to respond to? Your assertion that the family was pleased? …

Hello,

Alright, I’ll play along a little more. Generally, one responds to questions. So, what was there to respond to? Here’s a recap.

You said “It’s cruel to without the Eucharist from him on grounds of heartless canonical bureaucracy.” I asked “who is it who has acted in the way you describe, and for that reason, and how do you know? Surely you aren’t putting this at the feet of Cardinal Burke (who is a noted canon lawyer), are you?” You responded with a childish comment about canon lawyers.

Dan

 

[capablanca911]

Hello,

Alright, I’ll play along a little more. Generally, one responds to questions. So, what was there to respond to? Here’s a recap.

You said “It’s cruel to without the Eucharist from him on grounds of heartless canonical bureaucracy.” I asked “who is it who has acted in the way you describe, and for that reason, and how do you know? Surely you aren’t putting this at the feet of Cardinal Burke (who is a noted canon lawyer), are you?” You responded with a childish comment about canon lawyers.

Dan

sigh

RECAP:

First post was a link to a blog that quoted the Facebook page that said:

Louis [the child] was so sad that he couldn’t receive 1st Communion; he was in tears. When he said hi to Cardinal Burke, I explained to the Cardinal why he was sad and Louis just leaned into him and cried. His Eminence embraced him so lovingly and told him, “**don’t worry, your first Communion will come soon enough!”**I love that Louis poured out his sorrow to him like the shepherd that Cardinal Burke is… so dear!

Then I complained:

Presumably his head and spirit are rightly disposed. Obviously his heart is. It’s cruel to without the Eucharist from him on grounds of heartless canonical bureaucracy .

You said:

I’d agree with that but don’t think it applies here–the boy’s family looks happy, not disgruntled about heartless canonical bureaucracy. So, who is it who has acted in the way you describe, and for that reason, and how do you know? Surely you aren’t putting this at the feet of Cardinal Burke (who is a noted canon lawyer), are you?/QUOTE]

I said:

It wouldn’t make sense to blame bureaucracy and exclude canon lawyers would it?

You said:

Ok. Not a very impressive response but thanks for your time.

I responded:

What was there to respond to? Your assertion that the family was pleased?

True or false: Person X (properly disposed) should be denied sacraments because it pleases the family.

True or false: Person X (properly disposed) should be allowed sacraments because it pleases the family.

My opinion is that the desires of the family are immaterial to a properly disposed person desiring Communion. Now assuming for a moment (feel free to argue against this assertion) that any properly disposed person who desires sacraments should get them, and in this case he was (probably) properly disposed, it is my opinion that he should have gotten them.

The only reason he didn’t get them is because of bureaucratic neurosis about a numerical value of his date of birth, an obsession not known to the Church Universal in any century, and known to the Western Rite only after the 12th.

That, my friend, is a travesty.

---

So point of fact, you’ve made two seperate statements about the situation and I have responded to each of them. A very brief paraphrase goes as follows: Who do you blame, surely not the Cardinal? Yes, I blame the cardinal. *Well how is it that you even think there was a problem, seeing how the family was actually happy? * The family’s happiness is immaterial, and the boy was not happy.

Now if you found my responses to your questions not very compelling you are certainly free to state what wasn’t compelling in what I said and engage the argument…

 

[capablanca911]

*I color coded the response so that your ‘red’ argument is matched with my ‘red’ response and your ‘blue’ arugment matched with my blue response.

 

[dans0622]

…

So point of fact, you’ve made two seperate statements about the situation and I have responded to each of them. A very brief paraphrase goes as follows: Who do you blame, surely not the Cardinal? Yes, I blame the cardinal. *Well how is it that you even think there was a problem, seeing how the family was actually happy? * The family’s happiness is immaterial, and the boy was not happy.

Now if you found my responses to your questions not very compelling you are certainly free to state what wasn’t compelling in what I said and engage the argument…

Hello,

Your initial response was no response at all and is not even something to argue about but I’m glad we have made some progress now and I can safely conclude: you know that the family, or the boy himself, presented him(self) for Communion before Cardinal Burke and the Cardinal refused. I respond: that is not what is shown in that picture and the accompanying commentary does not establish that sequence of events. And, you know that the Cardinal did this because of heartless canonical bureaucracy and that he is suffering from neurosis. I admire your gift of discernment. Thanks.

Dan

 

[capablanca911]

If I have the gift of discernment, you have the gift of clairvoyance. No one has said he “presented” himself to receive the Eucharist. The story as told from the quote at Fr Z’s blog was that he desired the Eucharist and could not receive it.

The reason he could not receive it is A) canon law and B) Cardinal Burke.

So don’t be surprised if I lay blame at both canon law and Cardinal Burke for making a boy cry that should have received communion.

 

[agnes_therese]

His eyes shed tears because of raw jealousy.

You must know the boy personally, since you claim to know what was in his heart?