Cardinal George rebukes Fr Pfleger . . .

[chicago]

Now that the whole string is in context, we can see you are the one who apparently told a joke about shutting down a seminary and taking money from an endowment fund, you even put in the little pink smiley face, now you say you don’t think it is either funny or productive? Then why did you bother to say it? What did it add to the thread? Nothing humorous and nothing productive, as admitted by you.

Actually, you’re missing the larger context. It is commonly supposed by many in Chicago that one of the real reasons why the Archdiocese is presently shuttering it’s longstanding minor seminary is so that the institution’s endowment fund can eventually be raided in order to help pay off the sexual abuse lawsuits.

Please read through most of your posts again, they come off more like “excuses” simply because they are not backed up with anything factual.

No. they come off as “excuses” because that is the way in which you choose to read them. Note that I am not necessarily defending certain things, I’m just offering contexts and differing perspectives on what some are accusing.

It would be different if you could cite examples of other instances where similar incidents were handled in a similar manner, and then cite the Cardinal’s justification for handling it that way . . . but the reality is you are just offering up excuses and no facts.

I suppose that part of the problem is that I am working out of an understanding which is somewhat common in Chicago as to the workings of the Archdiocese and how the cardinal tends to handle things. To simplify, I’ll merely note that Fr. Pfleger is by no means the only priest with whom there have been traditional troubles. Cardinal George learned early on that a hard line approach to dealing with these types would not be effective, and so he has employed a more slow but sure end around tactic to get things changed into a different direction. Over a decade this has proven increasingly effective. But it takes a long time to turn around a big ship.

To cite one specific example, on another thread, John Higgins pointed out that his pastor, the long time head of Old St. Pat’s, is another case of such a struggle which ensued and became noted in the press. Well, as we now see, it’s being resolved. But that took several years to accomplish. The situation with Fr. Pfleger is similar in that regard.

On the other hand, in various Fr Pfleger threads people have cited evidence of his bad behavior that was backed up with various articles as evidence. So it seems to me all the evidence is on one side, and the excuses are on the other side

People have taken easy shots at him based upon their own perceptions. The cardinal doesn’t go around putting on websites everything that he is doing to deal with his priests, however, so it’s not as easy to find information at the ready which can be pulled down and posted in a thread. Rather, you need to have folllowed him closely over the course of these ten years as Archbishop to understand what he’s truly been up to. Those who have bothered to do so can comment more intelligently as to what’s really going on in the Archdiocese as it relates to such issues, if they’re willing to view things objectively and not just engage in more inflammatory rhetoric about what they’d like to see done with fire and brimstone.

 

[melensdad]

In just another act of disobedience, here is a link to the NBC TV video of Fr Pfleger whining about the fact that the Cardinal issued a public statement instead of talking to Fr Pfleger first. Now let me get this straight, Fr Plfeger can go to the press but the Cardinal can’t? And isn’t Fr Pfleger simply going to the press AGAIN and instead of going to the Cardinal? So isn’t this just another case of the Fr Pfleger doing exactly what he complains about when other people do it? HYPOCRITE
Link to NBC

And if you don’t want to waste the time to watch the video, here is the text from the NBC website:

Priest’s ‘Snuff’ Comment Earns Cardinal’s Rebuke
Pfleger Says He Stands By Intended Message

Rev. Michael Pflager allegedly threatened a gun store owner at an anti-gun rally last month, NBC5’s Anthony Ponce reported. Pfleger used the word “snuff,” which is slang for murder. After complaints from the National Rifle Association, the archdiocese released a statement quoting George, who said, "publicly delivering a threat against anyone’s life betrays the civil order and is morally outrageous, especially if this threat came from a priest."

Pfleger said at the time, he had no idea the word could refer to killing.

** “I’ve never, ever heard of the word snuff to mean murder,”** he said. "I’ve never heard that."

Pfleger said he wishes he’d been able to clarify what he meant before the archdiocese issued a public statement.

“Was it upsetting to have nobody call me from the archdiocese? Yeah,” Pfleger said. "I mean, why not call me? Why not ask me?"

Archdiocesan officials said regardless of whether Pfleger meant any harm by saying what he did, it was still a poor choice of words, Ponce reported. A representative for the Archdiocese said despite the tension, George and Pfleger do want the same thing, and that is to protect people, especially children, from gun violence.

Pfleger said he still stands strong by his intended message.

“My message is, ‘We’re going to keep putting pressure on gun shop owners and legislators until we have common sense gun laws,’” Pfleger said.

​

It seems like Fr Pfleger is sticking with his “I didn’t know” defense. The only problem is that his “I didn’t know” defense doesn’t stand up very well, especially since most people over the age of 12 know what it means.

Further, and just a little inaccuracy in the story, it says the Cardinal issued a statement after the N.R.A. complained, but the Cardinal had previously issued a statement that its response to Fr Pfleger was not due to ANY complaints from any gun group.

I’m just curious what Fr Pfleger thinks are “common sense” gun laws? Illinois has some of the toughest laws in the nation. Chicago and several suburbs have even tougher laws. The Brady Campaign recently “upgraded” Illinois’ “grade” to an “A-” from a “B+” for tightening its laws. Seems like the only thing that can satisfy Fr Plfeger is total confiscation of guns from legal owners

 

[Walkerboy88]

Has Fr. Pfleger apologized for using the word “snuff”? Has he made clear that human life is sacred and that no harm should come to Mr. Riggio?

That’s not gonna happen. He’s already said what he ment by the word he used,but of course people are conviced that he’s lying.So what do you say to somebody who’s convinced that you’re lying? You explain your intent,and the listener is sure you’re untrue in that explaination. What do you do? Besides,it seems to be counterproductive to call for the murder for someone at a rally protesting guns used in murders. Either you like Pfleger,or hate him. All of this started with the ILL Rifle Association,and the NRA THREE days AFTER the rally. The chief of police of Riverdale was there. If there was a threat of murder at that occasion,I’d think that the Chief of police…AND THE MAYOR of Riverdale was there too…would have taken some action. The people who were there,including the press,didn’t interpret his use of the word as a call for the murder of the gunshop owner.

 

[Walkerboy88]

In just another act of disobedience, here is a link to the NBC TV video of Fr Pfleger whining about the fact that the Cardinal issued a public statement instead of talking to Fr Pfleger first. Now let me get this straight, Fr Plfeger can go to the press but the Cardinal can’t? And isn’t Fr Pfleger simply going to the press AGAIN and instead of going to the Cardinal? So isn’t this just another case of the Fr Pfleger doing exactly what he complains about when other people do it? HYPOCRITE
Link to NBC

And if you don’t want to waste the time to watch the video, here is the text from the NBC website:

Priest’s ‘Snuff’ Comment Earns Cardinal’s Rebuke
Pfleger Says He Stands By Intended Message

Rev. Michael Pflager allegedly threatened a gun store owner at an anti-gun rally last month, NBC5’s Anthony Ponce reported. Pfleger used the word “snuff,” which is slang for murder. After complaints from the National Rifle Association, the archdiocese released a statement quoting George, who said, "publicly delivering a threat against anyone’s life betrays the civil order and is morally outrageous, especially if this threat came from a priest."

Pfleger said at the time, he had no idea the word could refer to killing.

** “I’ve never, ever heard of the word snuff to mean murder,”** he said. "I’ve never heard that."

Pfleger said he wishes he’d been able to clarify what he meant before the archdiocese issued a public statement.

“Was it upsetting to have nobody call me from the archdiocese? Yeah,” Pfleger said. "I mean, why not call me? Why not ask me?"

Archdiocesan officials said regardless of whether Pfleger meant any harm by saying what he did, it was still a poor choice of words, Ponce reported. A representative for the Archdiocese said despite the tension, George and Pfleger do want the same thing, and that is to protect people, especially children, from gun violence.

Pfleger said he still stands strong by his intended message.

“My message is, ‘We’re going to keep putting pressure on gun shop owners and legislators until we have common sense gun laws,’” Pfleger said.

​

It seems like Fr Pfleger is sticking with his “I didn’t know” defense. The only problem is that his “I didn’t know” defense doesn’t stand up very well, especially since most people over the age of 12 know what it means.

Further, and just a little inaccuracy in the story, it says the Cardinal issued a statement after the N.R.A. complained, but the Cardinal had previously issued a statement that its response to Fr Pfleger was not due to ANY complaints from any gun group.

**“Snuff” is slang for murder"…That really makes me laugh. See,if you’re in the area where Pfleger lives,if you said you were gonna “sunff” someone out the response would be…“What?”:ehh:

In Websters there are SIX definitions for the word “Snuff”,one of which is murder**…and another is to investegate,or sniff out
I don’t have to ask you which definition Pfleger was using,but which one did HE mean?? You can speculate based upon your dislike of the man,but only HE KNOWS what he ment.Now if he says he didn’t mean “murder”,then the ball is in the listeners court. Not trying to convince you at all. I know what your answer is. “git 'er done!!”

Now if you said you were gonna “Pop” sombody,or “Bust a cap” THEN they’d know what you were talking about. I’m not going to try to convince YOU about ANYTHING because your mind is set,and there’s nothing Pfleger can do to correct this situation,even if he said I’m so sorry Mr.Riggio. I didn’t mean to upset you. So convincing you isn’t possible. That’s too obvious.
The fact that nobody that was there felt that Pfleger was calling for the murder of a gunshop owner. That’s why the rally was reported as a rally by Operation PUSH and supporters on the evening news that night. He didn’t go to the press. If you know anything about news,the object is to get the story. NBC came to him…Pfleger didn’t go to NBC(lol). …and who said the Cardnal couldn’t go to the press.? Check this out. I’m a tax paying,law abiding citizen. I can go to a gunshop and buy a glock…and sell it to a guy in the hood for a profit. …nice doin’ business with you. Nothing wrong with that,right? Right…

Keep hating Pfleger…the best priest is one who prays more. :tiphat:

 

[melensdad]

**“Snuff” is slang for murder"…That really makes me laugh. See,if you’re in the area where Pfleger lives,if you said you were gonna “sunff” someone out the response would be…“What?”:ehh:

In Websters there are SIX definitions for the word “Snuff”,one of which is murder**…and another is to investegate,or sniff out
I don’t have to ask you which definition Pfleger was using,but which one did HE mean?? You can speculate based upon your dislike of the man,but only HE KNOWS what he ment.Now if he says he didn’t mean “murder”,then the ball is in the listeners court. Not trying to convince you at all. I know what your answer is. “git 'er done!!”

You don’t have to ask what definition I was using, but you should not what definition the Cardinal was using when the Cardinal admonished him for “publicly delivering a threat against anyone’s life betrays the civil order and is morally outrageous, especially if this threat came from a priest.”
Its not just me, in fact its not just Cardinal George, its a lot of people who understood him that way.

**The fact that nobody that was there felt that Pfleger was calling for the murder of a gunshop owner. **

That is absolutely untrue. The fact is that nobody who was interviewed later, after the media broadcast the speech thought that. Well let me ask you a question, hours after a rally is over, when the press showed his speech, who was left to be interviewed? They interviewed a couple of his organizers and even interviewed a reporter. They did not interview the crowd.

I can go to a gunshop and buy a glock…and sell it to a guy in the hood for a profit. …nice doin’ business with you. Nothing wrong with that,right? Right…

If you did so you would be committing a crime.

Further, do you have any proof that is occurring from Chuck’s Gun Shop? If you do, the BATF would gladly investigate. In fact they love to run stings to catch ‘straw sales’ but Chucks has not been accused of that. . . except as implied by you. Do you know something the BATF does not know? Or are you saying they are guilty without evidence (seems to me there is a Commandment about bearing false witness!)

** Keep hating Pfleger**

I don’t hate Fr Pfleger, I just question if he is actually acting as a Catholic Priest, and that is based on a series of evidence that has been presented in several threads. I’ve actually said he does a lot of good in his community. I’m simply not sure he is doing it as Catholic, I’m not sure he is teaching or following the Catholic faith.

 

[melensdad]

"Snuff" is slang for murder"…That really makes me laugh.

The problem with your definition is you choose the single word “snuff” not the whole term used by Fr Pfleger which was “snuff out”

According to Dictionary.Com, when used as a slang phrase it means only 1 thing, KILLMain Entry: snuff out
**Part of Speech: **verb
**Definition: **kill
Synonyms: blow away, bump off, chill, dispatch, dispose of, do away with, do in, dust, grease, hit, ice, knock off, murder, off, rub out, stretch out, waste, wax, whack, zap

 

[Stolen_Rutters]

The traditional meaning of snuff out used to be to snuff out the candles, i.e. suffocate by removing the supply of oxygen (as opposed to blowing out a candle, which is to increase the flow velocity of the air to reduce the wick temperature below the level necessary to sustain combustion). The ONLY place this is done anymore is in a catholic church. I was raised catholic and that is exactly what they called putting out the candles when I was a kid.

Outside of the church, he should know that “snuff out” carries a completely different meaning altogether. Only a priest (or one of the few candle aficionados left) would think it means anything other than kill. He should be sued. His diocese should be sued.

 

[tm30]

Rev. Pfleger supports abortion-on-demand Barack Obama. That’s all you need to know.

 

[childofmary1143]

It’s very hard to have any sympathy for Father Pfleger because if my 10 year old niece knows what snuff out means then he surely does to and when he says he doesn’t I know he is lying.

 

[Teflon93]

How about those unborn babies being “snuffed out” in Chicago and elsewhere through the efforts of the abortion enablers Pfleger lets defile the sanctuary?

The surest sign of a wayward priest is the loss of the moral compass provided by the Church.

He needs rebuke.