Cardinal opens door to Lutheran ordinariates

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JonNC said:
Hey Pablo,
Can you, or another Catholic, explain what the Cardinal means?
Cardinal Koch also said that both “'progressives and traditionalists suffer from the same ailment”: a refusal to interpret the Second Vatican Council with a hermeneutic of “renewal in continuity.”
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Sorry…Jon…am not that familiar with what the Cardinal is saying. I hope others can who are more familiar and knowledgeable with the issue the cardinal is speaking about.
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JonNC said:
I would only need a small brief case: may I bring The Augsburg Confession, the Lutheran mass, and Lutheran hymnody?

Jon
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The same as what was allowed to the Anglicans…I do not see why not…and one more condition…bring several busloads with you…😃
 
pablope said:
The same as what was allowed to the Anglicans…I do not see why not…and one more condition…bring several busloads with you…😃
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Picturing a couple million (former) Lutherans flooding into your fellowship halls armed with hotdish and jello makes me giggle.
 
If I see an ordinariate for the Seventh-Day Adventists, then I’ll be partying. 😃
 
JonNC said:
Hey Pablo,
Can you, or another Catholic, explain what the Cardinal means?

Jon
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Others can elaborate - and I don’t want to derail the thread…but basically he’s saying that there are two very vocal movements in Catholicism at present:
  1. Ultra-Traditionalists who insist Vatican represented a radical departure from the faith of our fathers and introduced heretedox modernist positions in the Church, at worst, or ambigious statements that can be interpreted as such, at best.
  2. Liberals/progressives who celebrate what they call the “spirit of Vatican II” - a deliberate and conscious depature from the “bondage” and “errors” of rigid tradition leading to all experimentation in the holy mass and theology that goes along with it…
The Holy Father says that both camps are dead wrong. Vatican II’s true teachings, properly interpreted in light of Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, represent a continuity with the pre-Vatican II Church. The true spirit of Vatican II is one of renewal for the Church without throwing out the 1950 years of truth and beauty that came before it…

Not sure what this has to do with Lutheranism or Lutheran Ordinariates though? Perhaps we could say that Camp 1 (Ultra-Traditionalists) would reject such overtures as a form of false modernist ecumenism, while Camp 2 (Liberals/Progressives) would say our doctrinal differences don’t matter…we should be communing each other already! Both are obviously wrong. Camp 1 would reject receiving married Lutheran priests. Camp 2 would rejoice at women priests. Orthodox Vatican II Catholicism, as taught by our Holy Father, would say married former Lutheran priests are welcome…but they can keep their wives away from the altar! 😛
 
twf said:
Others can elaborate - and I don’t want to derail the thread…but basically he’s saying that there are two very vocal movements in Catholicism at present:
  1. Ultra-Traditionalists who insist Vatican represented a radical departure from the faith of our fathers and introduced heretedox modernist positions in the Church, at worst, or ambigious statements that can be interpreted as such, at best.
  2. Liberals/progressives who celebrate what they call the “spirit of Vatican II” - a deliberate and conscious depature from the “bondage” and “errors” of rigid tradition leading to all experimentation in the holy mass and theology that goes along with it…
The Holy Father says that both camps are dead wrong. Vatican II’s true teachings, properly interpreted in light of Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, represent a continuity with the pre-Vatican II Church. The true spirit of Vatican II is one of renewal for the Church without throwing out the 1950 years of truth and beauty that came before it…

Not sure what this has to do with Lutheranism or Lutheran Ordinariates though? Perhaps we could say that Camp 1 (Ultra-Traditionalists) would reject such overtures as a form of false modernist ecumenism, while Camp 2 (Liberals/Progressives) would say our doctrinal differences don’t matter…we should be communing each other already! Both are obviously wrong. Camp 1 would reject receiving married Lutheran priests. Camp 2 would rejoice at women priests. Orthodox Vatican II Catholicism, as taught by our Holy Father, would say married former Lutheran priests are welcome…but they can keep their wives away from the altar! 😛
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Thanks.

Jon
 
I would come too if I could bring the Lutheran Confessions, hymnody, Lutheran Mass, but we would have to come to a real understanding of the Doctrine of Justification, not the so-called JDDJ.
Article IV: Of Justification.

1] Also they teach that men cannot be justified before God by their own strength, merits, or works, but are freely justified for 2] Christ’s sake, through faith, when they believe that they are received into favor, and that their sins are forgiven for Christ’s sake, who, by His death, has made satisfaction for our sins. 3] This faith God imputes for righteousness in His sight. Rom. 3 and 4.
 
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