Cardinal Schönborn

[Sirach2]

To “argue a theological position” with you is foolish, for I have nothing to defend; my allegiance is with the Church who approved the catechism. My guess would be that you were one of the first to sign the recall *petition. *Your argument is therefore with the church, not me.

As I said earlier, contraception is not an issue to go into depth with in a catechism directed to youth.

 

[Dan_Daly]

Great minds think alike My position is the position of the Chuch as well.

From the Pontifical Biblical Commission:

Question VIII: Whether in that designation and distinction of six days, with which the account of the first chapter of Genesis deals, the word (dies) can be assumed either in its proper sense as a natural day, or in the improper sense of a certain space of time; and whether with regard to such a question there can be free disagreement among exegetes? – Reply: In the affirmative

Nothing in there about crossing a line, being akin to heresy or being naive.

Also:

Question III: Whether in particular the literal and historical sense can be called into question, where it is a matter of facts related in the same chapters, which pertain to the foundation of the Christian religion; for example, among others, the creation of all things wrought by God in the beginning of time; the special creation of man; the formation of the first woman from the first man; the oneness of the human race; the original happiness of our first parents in the state of justice, integrity, and immortality; the command given to man by God to prove his obedience; the transgression of the divine command through the devil’s persuasion under the guise of a serpent; the casting of our first parents out of that first state of innocence; and also the promise of a future restorer? – Reply: In the negative.

As you said, the YOUCAT is not an exhaustive document. It says Catholics may believe in “evolution” but doesn’t explain or define what “evolution” entails. The idea that the first woman was made from the first man, doesn’t fit into most people’s ideas of “evolution” when speaking of human origins.

I’ve not said that the YOUCAT says anything directly CONTRARY to Church teaching on this matter. What I have said, is that it gives a misleading impression of Church teaching.

Do you disagree that the YOUCAT’s text on Creation and the PBC’s findings I quote give two very different impressions?

Another way that I’m not placing myself at odds with the Church, despite your assertion that I am, is that Pope Benedict XVI himself, says the YOUCAT is not perfect in his forward to the book.

Pax and God Bless.

 

[Sirach2]

Dan Daly:

Question III: Whether in particular the literal and historical sense can be called into question; i.e., “the creation of all things wrought by God” … Negative.

Surely you realize this Commission’s Q/A’s was dated 1909?
Have you not searched current papal encyclicals that expand this teaching more clearly than your isolated quote?
Pope Benedict XVI:

My predecessors Pope Pius XII and Pope John Paul II noted that there is no opposition between faith’s understanding of creation and the evidence of the empirical sciences. Source

The CCC states:
**337 **God himself created the visible world in all its richness, diversity and order. Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine “work”, concluded by the “rest” of the seventh day. On the subject of creation, the sacred text teaches the truths revealed by God for our salvation, permitting us to “recognize the inner nature, the value and the ordering of the whole of creation to the praise of God.”
This is more in line with true, current church teaching – that the literalness of six days is presented symbolically, but the fullness of truth always to be believed, is that God is the Creator, however it occurred. Your Q/A VIII agrees with this and states affirmatively that “with regard to such a question there can be free disagreement among exegetes.”

It also says that Catholics may believe in “evolution” but fails to define what the term means, and doesn’t make any mention of things a layman might think of as part of “evolution” which a Catholic may not believe, such as polygenism.

That is not a problem, since Pope Benedict stated in the Prologue that, “It had to be simple so that the individual groups of authors that we established would have a clear task and would not have to force their work into a complicated system.” You take offense that it did not go into the details you might prefer to read as an adult, whereas youth will not concern themselves with intricasies of that nature. They need the basics, and it appears this has been accomplished. Polygenism is not in the realm of basics.

Stating that belief that the world was created in 6 days “crosses a line” and is “naive” while failing to mention that is an orthodox Catholic position, is in my opinion misleading.

I don’t own a copy, and since you failed to state the entire article, I’m not sure how to answer your complaint. Also, FYI, I will be leaving for vacation early tomorrow and will not be using the computer during that time. Just so you won’t think I’m ignoring you.

 

[Joe_5859]

If one is going to ascribe every single articulation present in YOUCAT (in every single language) to Cardinal Schönborn, then one would have to do the same thing with the universal Catechism which he also oversaw.

In both instances, I think it is somewhat pointless of an enterprise. He oversaw both projects. He didn’t write every single word and he certainly didn’t translate it into English himself.

But I do think that the fact that the popes are entrusting him with such monumentally important tasks are indicative of the kind of man he is. And “heterodox liberal dissenter” would not be the description I would go with.

 

[Margie9]

Cardinal Schonborn is Austrian, now Viennese. Not merely European, but of that unique and lively culture of music, beauty and gaeity. The land of Mozart. It is impossible for an American who has not either traveled extensively, or read quite widely of real literature to understand a man like this. He can be the most “orthodox, devout, trad” Cardinal and by American standards will not seem so. To us, it is almost a stereotype, we can put our US Bishops into very easy categories, and the Europeans do not fit.

Cardinal Schonborn has not the gravitas of the Pope, but certainly he is an intellectual and a sincere Catholic. It’s an entirely different way of thinking, the Austrian, which you can only understand if you have been there or read quite a bit of history. So I caution not to judge by things that really are quirks and look at him overall.