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Contarini
Guest
That obviously doesn’t address the question of what immigrants are to do when a country refuses to “receive” them, or rather “receives” them by exploiting them economically while refusing to grant them full legal recognition.
If supposedly conservative Christians would end their idolatrous and superstitious opposition to “amnesty” for illegal aliens, then we would see which immigrants are willing to obey the laws and assist in carrying civil burdens. But as long as such “amnesty” is refused unjustly, there is at least one law that has no moral authority over undocumented immigrants and those who help them out of Christian charity.
An unjust law is no law at all. That is a basic principle of traditional Catholic ethics, is it not?
Edwin
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Contarini
Guest
Any orthodox Christian is against punishing people simply for violating an unjust human ordinance.
A very odd question. If illegal immigrants were granted legal status, they would *be *legal immigrants. There’s no “displacing” in question.
Edwin
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Contarini
Guest
Interpreting this in the light of your post #7, you appear to mean that those who are here illegally and refuse the offer of legal status should be deported. I don’t know why anyone would disagree with this. If that’s your position, I fail to see what this thread is about.
The problem is that many Americans oppose your just and charitable proposal to create a process by which illegal immigrants may gain legal status. The Catholic bishops rightly condemn this hardness of heart and blindness to true justice. I’m not sure what you think you are disagreeing with in the position of your bishops.
Nobody wants illegal immigration.
Edwin
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LilyM
Guest
Reading the above again something caught my attention:
So it would appear that you’re advancing the entirely self-evident proposition that those who intend to indulge in criminal enterprise should be deported - well of course they should! No-one’s disputing that.
But think about it - why should, say, a doctor be welcomed with open arms into America (as many doubtless are) when they come with the intent of working as an abortionist and aiding and abetting the killing of one million future US citizens a year. While someone who is willing and able to work in a manner that contributes positively to American society be refused a visa, for example, because they do not meet some arbitrary criteria in regards their age. Or a score on an English test. Or something equally irrelevant.
Again, my father came to Australia with a whole six-week crash course in English under his belt. He would’ve failed to meet the required standard in any language test imposed on migrants today. As would most native-born citizens of the US or Australia for that matter, and somehow they manage to function just fine for the most part.
Thank God it wasn’t required of him at the time - he did excellent work as a doctor even with his somewhat limited, but still understandable, English, and was an asset to the community, just as he would be today. The difference being by today’s more stringent standards he wouldn’t have passed that first hurdle. Same person, same capabilities, only difference being arbitrarily imposed and changed criteria for entry.
Now surely every single immigrant who is in America wants to live there, certainly, or they wouldn’t come or wouldn’t remain. And certainly to work as well - if they’re not going to work it would be much more comfortable to be out of work in their own countries, where (unlike America) they would presumably be eligible for social services. Or at least need not live in constant fear of being caught and deported for something as simple as trying to get their child into school, organise a union at work or visit the hospital or doctor when they are ill.
So it would appear that you’re advancing the entirely self-evident proposition that those who intend to indulge in criminal enterprise should be deported - well of course they should! No-one’s disputing that.
But think about it - why should, say, a doctor be welcomed with open arms into America (as many doubtless are) when they come with the intent of working as an abortionist and aiding and abetting the killing of one million future US citizens a year. While someone who is willing and able to work in a manner that contributes positively to American society be refused a visa, for example, because they do not meet some arbitrary criteria in regards their age. Or a score on an English test. Or something equally irrelevant.
Again, my father came to Australia with a whole six-week crash course in English under his belt. He would’ve failed to meet the required standard in any language test imposed on migrants today. As would most native-born citizens of the US or Australia for that matter, and somehow they manage to function just fine for the most part.
Thank God it wasn’t required of him at the time - he did excellent work as a doctor even with his somewhat limited, but still understandable, English, and was an asset to the community, just as he would be today. The difference being by today’s more stringent standards he wouldn’t have passed that first hurdle. Same person, same capabilities, only difference being arbitrarily imposed and changed criteria for entry.
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CWBetts
Guest
What of the corporal works of mercy?
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DOShea
Guest
In the parable of the Good Samaritan, the priest and the levite both had an obligation to help the fallen, beaten, man. Neither did. Along comes the one guy who had NO obligation (in law) to help him, and did, expending his time, resources, money, and obligated himself for whatever was necessary to do the job thoroughly. Jesus held the Samaritan up as the man who truly knew who his neighbor was. Nowhere in there was there a process by which a green card is checked, or a citizenship certified before proceeding.
People aren’t sneaking into this country because they have a good job and nice home someplace else and just want a boat and a snowmobile. We have an obligation to help them no matter who they are, or why they appear in front of us in need.
The issue of why they are here illegally has nothing to do with the fact that they are hungry and you have food and you have a choice to make. If you don’t think Washington is addressing the problem, then vote against your incumbent representatives and get new ones who might listen, since the ones in there now have had a chance and failed.
Helping does not mean we should give those in need a house, a car, a license to drive, free food forever, and free medical care forever. Helping is taking care of immediate needs first, and having a plan (which we don’t) for how to put that person into legal status and employment so that they might be self sufficient and maybe even help someone else.
The one thing Jesus always seemed to be able to do is confound people who had something by demanding they give it away. Maybe that’s true today. Maybe that has something to do with why unemployment is so high - because we want to hoard employment and are so faithless we won’t trust God to take care of us as we take care of those he sends to us, even illegally. Maybe it has something to do with why our leaders can’t seem to do a thing except argue about how big a crisis we have in health care, while meanwhile we sit and decide sick people should be denied care because it costs us too much and they don’t have the proper paperwork.
Maybe what we need is a little more faith and actually practice what it demands of us.
People aren’t sneaking into this country because they have a good job and nice home someplace else and just want a boat and a snowmobile. We have an obligation to help them no matter who they are, or why they appear in front of us in need.
The issue of why they are here illegally has nothing to do with the fact that they are hungry and you have food and you have a choice to make. If you don’t think Washington is addressing the problem, then vote against your incumbent representatives and get new ones who might listen, since the ones in there now have had a chance and failed.
Helping does not mean we should give those in need a house, a car, a license to drive, free food forever, and free medical care forever. Helping is taking care of immediate needs first, and having a plan (which we don’t) for how to put that person into legal status and employment so that they might be self sufficient and maybe even help someone else.
The one thing Jesus always seemed to be able to do is confound people who had something by demanding they give it away. Maybe that’s true today. Maybe that has something to do with why unemployment is so high - because we want to hoard employment and are so faithless we won’t trust God to take care of us as we take care of those he sends to us, even illegally. Maybe it has something to do with why our leaders can’t seem to do a thing except argue about how big a crisis we have in health care, while meanwhile we sit and decide sick people should be denied care because it costs us too much and they don’t have the proper paperwork.
Maybe what we need is a little more faith and actually practice what it demands of us.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
I have no problem with conditional amnesty,( or election, for that matter!
), but I believe that those wanting to live and work in America should follow the rules.I am in favor of extending the opportunity for a legal pathway to illegals currently in the country as long as we simultaneously secure the border.
I believe immigration is good for America and that the process should be simplified and streamlined. My concern is not the number of immigrants.
This does not mean that our current laws are not unjust. The problem has been created because the laws are not enforced.
An illegal alien is violating Church teaching as soon as he/she enters the country illegally.
This doesn’t negate our duty as Christians to show charity and compassion, but neither does it excuse criminal behavior.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
Thousands of illegal immigrants are abused on both sides of the border in countless ways every week.
It is a terrible system.
We need a controlled legal immigration system that cannot be bypassed.
That is the merciful and just answer to the dilemma.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
Legal immigration allowances are reduced due to the 12-20 million illegal immigrants in the nation.
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CWBetts
Guest
So would you support amnesty for those who have no criminal record other than illegally crossing the border? They would then be legally here.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
Yes, based on certain conditions, including voluntarily compliance with amnesty requirments.
I believe all US residence should demonstrate a willingness to speak English or our nation could become increasingly balkanized.
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