Catholic and Christians

[Keikiolu]

I was starting to think this way one day until I realized my error.

Does God stop loving us and stop accepting our love and worship of Him when we fall into sin and make mistakes? Of course not! We do not cease to be His Children just because we are imperfect.

To me, Protestants are simply followers of Christ who fell into error by listening to the wrong people. They love God and do their best to follow His teachings, just as Catholics do. They are definitely Christians, they just are a little misguided in some of their thinking. God does not stop loving them or accepting them into His arms as His children because of this. We shouldn’t either. Pray for them yes, but leave the judging to God.

God doesn’t stop loving ANYONE, so whether God loves you or not is not a sign that you are a Christian.

Protestants are doing their best, with what they have to work with. Most everyone is doing their best with what they’ve got to work with. Those who aren’t are simply downright evil, and will get what they deserve.

We certainly can’t judge their souls (condemn them to hell), as that’s God’s job and not ours, but we certainly CAN judge their actions (evaluate their faithfullness to the Church) as they display them.

If we judge their actions as “non-christian” then it’s our duty to help them to see their errors.

The term “judgemental” is one often used to stop us (catholics) from saying what needs to be said.

You can be judgemental of what you see, which obliges you to act to correct errors, even in others, but you CAN’T be “condemnational”, which is what those who would shut you up THINK you are being when you’re being judgemental.

Satan lies, again, when he tells people that any judgementalism is condemnation.

 

[levi86]

Don’t get defensive. All I was saying is that is your opinion and not necessarily fact. You are welcome to your opinion, just I am welcome to mine.

I happen to think your assumption that Protestant theology is un-Christian is wrong. Protestants are baptized and follow Christ. Sounds Christian to me.

I didn’t mean to target your post specifically; I more or less used it as a whipping boy to represent a number of different comments made against me

It just really irks me when people (not necessarily yourself) claim that “the church says” without being able to substantiate it.

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

When someone asks that question I usually say “Nothing.”

Remember, the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ Himself. We are the original Christians. The other Christians you are probably thinking of are the ones who broke away from the Catholic Church. (They are called Protestants. They come under many names - Baptists, Lutheran, Methodists, Non-Denominational, Evangelical, etc.)

Their doctrines are full of error, and more often than not, they take great pains in trying to prove the Catholic Church wrong. (Which is impossible).

What a kind, gentle, and humble response. How about remembering, as the Catechism points out (see below) “often enough, men of both sides were to blame”. Many Catholics broke away due to the abuses of Church leaders, including indulgences. Why ignore that while jumping to say “Their doctrines are full of error, and more often than not…”

Ever read about the Dominican Girolamo Savonarola, a few years before Luther’s reformation? Such a pure Church, so much as changed since then. With hanging and burning, indulgences, what Christian would not desire reform/correction? And if there is no reform/correction, should they blindly follow silently? Is that what a follower of Christ would do?
historyguide.org/intellect/savonarola.html

Remember, we are all sons and daughters of God, and men in positions of Church authority have had detrimental effects on the Church and the faith of others, both then and now. You are no more a servant of God than faithful Catholics in the pews, or faithful Protestants in their pews.

Maybe I’ll see you at Our Lady of Lourdes or Sts Peter and Paul Cathedral in Phila.

God bless,

Michael

From the Catechism:
scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#813
"Wounds to unity

817 In fact, “in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - **for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.”**269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271"

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Protestants are NOT correct. May they attain salvation despite this? Yes.

There is no opinion here. Christ gave the authority to the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has the correct doctrine because it was given from Christ. Anyone who does not profess the teachings of the Catholic Church is in error. Simple. Protestants reject this to prove their own doctrines, but it is a FACT that Christ founded the Catholic Church.

FACT is that Christ is the head of the Church. FACT is that Peter was corrected by Paul, even after being taught directly by Jesus. Many Protestants reject what they believe are errors with Catholic doctrine, either through misunderstanding of the doctrines, or by Catholics not living their faith well and thus giving false witness against their own Catholic faith to others. Most “Catholics” don’t have a deep understanding of their faith or cannot verbalize the gospel to others, let alone demonstrate moderate fluency in Scriptures. FACT is that many Protestants live more Christ-like lives than many Catholics. Will many Protestants have salvation despite the abuses and corruption of members of the Catholic Church over the centuries? Yes, by God’s grace. Will many Catholics have salvation despite the abuses and corruption of members of the Catholic Church over the centuries? Yes, by God’s grace. It is a simple fact that the apostles were not perfect, Peter was not perfect, etc… That does not change the FACT that Christ founded and heads His Church, and that members of His Church are sinners, me, you, the Pope, Protestants, …

Michael

 

[bornagain24355]

By Grace you have been saved through faith in Jesus

Hey y'all... Im a christian, so what does that mean? I believe in grace and Jesus. My focus is more on the new life Jesus has brought, the forgiveness, the blessings... I am a pastly confirmed, baptized, reconciled, gone through all the steps... catholic school student that now has no denomination, im just a believer. I do attend a evangelical free church. I guess my question is this, something I am currently learning... Whats your view of Jesus or the father God? If you've seen Jesus then you've seen the father, look it up in the NIV Bible. So honestly, first thing to come to mind for me is an angry God, a God of works, and a God that will allow you to lose your salvation once it is attained through faith in Jesus..  But the truth is, by grace you have been saved, is there anything that can tuly seperate us from Gods love, no. So salvation cannot be lost once it is achieved, and its achieved only through believing in Jesus that he died for your sins and is your savior. Thats it. yep, thats it. More so now after salvation, a new life, complete forgiveness for everything, always, forever, eternally. Say hello to grace, its amazing. And I wanna share it with you....

ps… he and I are working on my view of him, lol

Read Abbas Child, learn about the author, he’s an expriest…
you don’t have to believe it, just see what you think…[/FONT]

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Hi all,

I was just wondering… Whats the difference between Catholic’s and Christian’s?

Help out a young one…

Thanks in Advance,

Christians includes ALL who believe in Christ as Lord and Saviour. Catholic includes ALL Christians who believe in the whole Christ as Lord and Saviour, in ALL He said, did, and taught.

 

[bornagain24355]

**Also, christians can be catholics… Catholics can be christians…

The Christian word was actually given as the first label by secular persons at the time of Jesus or soon after. What it implies is a believer in Jesus and his salvation… Therefore, there is many styles of believers but they all believe in this, salvation through faith in the grace (not by works), of Jesus Christ.

Thats our common bond. Were brothers and sisters, even childen of God… New creations, bought at price, totally forgiven, Romans 8:1 No condemnation (guilt) for thos in Christ Jesus. No guilt. ever. We are his friends and desciples.**

 

[st_lucy]

**Also, christians can be catholics… Catholics can be christians…

The Christian word was actually given as the first label by secular persons at the time of Jesus or soon after. What it implies is a believer in Jesus and his salvation… Therefore, there is many styles of believers but they all believe in this, salvation through faith in the grace (not by works), of Jesus Christ.

Thats our common bond. Were brothers and sisters, even childen of God… New creations, bought at price, totally forgiven, Romans 8:1 No condemnation (guilt) for thos in Christ Jesus. No guilt. ever. We are his friends and desciples.**

Well actually it is more like a all (practicing) catholics are Christians but not all Christians are Catholic. It like the square. All squares are rectangles but not rectangles are square.

The Catholic Church is the ONE church that Jesus left to His people. He didn’t leave ten thousand churches that would start 1500 years after His resurrection.

 

[bornagain24355]

If your a child of God you are the church. As for denomination Im not trying to argue anyone out of anything… I guess we could all take sides and such. Im just sharing that I was into works in the past and am now a true believer, i thought I could work my way to heaven, but now I know its only through faith in Jesus (believing truly in your heart that he is who he is) and what he has done. The one and only true church is Jesus and those who are in him. If being protestant leads you truly closer to Jesus than do it, same with catholicism, messianic Jews, whatever else… If it doesn’t, and you can tell by the fruit you bare, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, self control, then leave and find what does…And there will always be dry times in the faith, so give it time before any decision is made. Faith in Jesus and what he has done for you and accepting for yourself is the most important way. Do you find fellowship with the Lord where your at? If no then go where you do… Pray for a denomination that brings you closer to him, if you’ve ever experienced his presence than you know what I am saying.

Col 1:18 And He is the Head of the body, the church, who is the Beginning, the First-born from the dead, that He may be pre-eminent in all things.

If we are in him and he is in us than this assures us that we are the church.

 

[bornagain24355]

Well actually it is more like a all (practicing) catholics are Christians but not all Christians are Catholic. It like the square. All squares are rectangles but not rectangles are square.

My bad sorry, I kinda mixed that up your right… I tried

 

[Janet_S]

**By **Grace you have been saved through faith in Jesus****    ;) 


Hey y'all... Im a christian, so what does that mean? I believe in grace and Jesus. My focus is more on the new life Jesus has brought, the forgiveness, the blessings... I am a pastly confirmed, baptized, reconciled, gone through all the steps... catholic school student that now has no denomination, im just a believer. I do attend a evangelical free church. I guess my question is this, something I am currently learning... Whats your view of Jesus or the father God? If you've seen Jesus then you've seen the father, look it up in the NIV Bible. So honestly, first thing to come to mind for me is an angry God, a God of works, and a God that will allow you to lose your salvation once it is attained through faith in Jesus..  But the truth is, by grace you have been saved, is there anything that can tuly seperate us from Gods love, no. So salvation cannot be lost once it is achieved, and its achieved only through believing in Jesus that he died for your sins and is your savior. Thats it. yep, thats it. More so now after salvation, a new life, complete forgiveness for everything, always, forever, eternally. Say hello to grace, its amazing. And I wanna share it with you....

ps… he and I are working on my view of him, lol

Read Abbas Child, learn about the author, he’s an expriest…
you don’t have to believe it, just see what you think…[/FONT]

If you really love Jesus and are willing to listen to everything He taught and to follow Him wherever He leads you, you will return to the Catholic Church.

As far as the “once saved, always saved” Gospel you now proclaim, Catholics do not believe this because this is not the Gospel Jesus proclaimed.

We are saved by God’s grace, Catholics believe this; and we also believe God is a merciful God. But God gives us freedom, even the freedom to turn away from Him.

If you are so sure of the doctrine of eternal security, how do you reconcile your theology with Jesus’ own words in His Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-8) or in His account of the Final Judgment (Matthew 25)? Our actions have eternal consequences, there is no question about it.

I can understand why people are drawn to the eternal security doctrine, but I don’t see how anyone could truly believe it unless he or she were willing to ignore most of Jesus’ words recorded in the Bible.

 

[timlovesann]

seems to me that Catholics are the only ones who can really be called Christians, since we are the only ones that follow the Church founded by Christ Himself.

Others should be called Protestants. If they truly felt they were following Christ, they would be a part of His church.

AWESOME response! -
Protestants can be called “cafeteria” Catholics since they pick and choose which portions of the truth they choose to follow.

Catholics submit their will to the one true Church founded by Jesus.
Protestants submit their will to personal interpretation of a shorten version of the bible. Typically they search for a church which meets their personal needs and desires.

 

[bornagain24355]

Heres the truth, Once you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior nothing will seperate you from his love ever, ever ever, even suicide or drugs. You can tell Jesus bad bad bad things and still have his grace and mercy and eternal life. God is a God of freedom of choice, and we who are saved chose him and his salvation,and now we belong to him and nothing will be able to strip that away. Eternity in heaven is our home and we are bought at the price of Jesus’ death. Saying that we could sin and leave or be left from Gods love after our salvation is like saying that his blood isn’t sufficient and doesn’t cover all sins today tomarrow and for the rest of everyones lives on earth. He who is free is free indeed! Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Ever…
The catholic church left me after nearly dieng from a suicide attempt about 3-4 years ago, they told me that according to their belief people who do that cannot go to heaven. I am now saved and since one year after the catholic church deserted me I am now clothed in Jesus Christ and have a freind and savior that will Never Leave me Nor Forsake me!

 

[MariaG]

Also, christians can be catholics… Catholics can be christians…

The Christian word was actually given as the first label by secular persons at the time of Jesus or soon after. What it implies is a believer in Jesus and his salvation… Therefore, there is many styles of believers but they all believe in this, salvation through faith in the grace (not by works), of Jesus Christ.

Thats our common bond. Were brothers and sisters, even childen of God… New creations, bought at price, totally forgiven, Romans 8:1 No condemnation (guilt) for thos in Christ Jesus. No guilt. ever. We are his friends and desciples.

Hey bornagain, you have said a couple of times the “not by works” line. While further discussion along these lines is more deserving of its own thread, I just wanted to let you know something that I am guessing you failed to learn in all those years of Catholic schooling.

The Catholic church does not in fact teach that we are saved by works but by we are saved by grace alone

 

[Janet_S]

Heres the truth, Once you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior nothing will seperate you from his love ever, ever ever, even suicide or drugs. You can tell Jesus bad bad bad things and still have his grace and mercy and eternal life. God is a God of freedom of choice, and we who are saved chose him and his salvation,and now we belong to him and nothing will be able to strip that away. Eternity in heaven is our home and we are bought at the price of Jesus’ death. Saying that we could sin and leave or be left from Gods love after our salvation is like saying that his blood isn’t sufficient and doesn’t cover all sins today tomarrow and for the rest of everyones lives on earth. He who is free is free indeed! Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Ever…
The catholic church left me after nearly dieng from a suicide attempt about 3-4 years ago, they told me that according to their belief people who do that cannot go to heaven. I am now saved and since one year after the catholic church deserted me I am now clothed in Jesus Christ and have a freind and savior that will Never Leave me Nor Forsake me!

Can you address what I posted on 8/31 regarding Matthew 5-8 and 25 and how you reconcile Jesus’ teaching with the false Gospel of “once saved, always saved.”

I’m sorry you went through such a struggle with your suicide attempt, but the Catholic Church leaves no one.

 

[The_Truthinator]

Heres the truth, Once you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior nothing will seperate you from his love ever, ever ever, even suicide or drugs. You can tell Jesus bad bad bad things and still have his grace and mercy and eternal life. God is a God of freedom of choice, and we who are saved chose him and his salvation,and now we belong to him and nothing will be able to strip that away. Eternity in heaven is our home and we are bought at the price of Jesus’ death. Saying that we could sin and leave or be left from Gods love after our salvation is like saying that his blood isn’t sufficient and doesn’t cover all sins today tomarrow and for the rest of everyones lives on earth. He who is free is free indeed! Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Ever…
The catholic church left me after nearly dieng from a suicide attempt about 3-4 years ago, they told me that according to their belief people who do that cannot go to heaven. I am now saved and since one year after the catholic church deserted me I am now clothed in Jesus Christ and have a freind and savior that will Never Leave me Nor Forsake me!

Sin doesn’t leave us separated from God? I come from a Baptist background, and I can recall a sermon in which a man was doing everything in his power to muster up some scriptural support for once-saved, always-saved. Still, he insisted that sin nevertheless distances us from God … A strange assertion, no? The question, in my mind, then arises: If sin distances us from him, then how far can it put between God and ourselves before we have to admit there’s no longer ANY communion?

Some verses I know of are: Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 1 Cor. 9:27, Col. 1:22-23.

You’re right! There’s no condemnation for this IN CHRIST. So … who’s “in Christ”? If I’m murdering, abusing, or slandering someone, am I “in Christ” or “in the flesh”? Check out Galatians:

“You were called for freedom, brothers. But do not use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh… Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

So why does Paul warn the Galatians against indulging? Because “those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” Other such passages are frequently observed in the NT.

The Church no doubt told you that suicide is a mortal sin because, well, it is. It is giving into despair, saying, “GOD CANNOT HELP ME OUT OF THIS!” (Our old Baptist preacher put it this way in a sermon, and it saved my life.) It is contemplated usually, too. Typically, sad though it may be, people who do such a thing are cutting themselves off from God. It is not as though his Blood isn’t enough; rather, it is because he will not force himself upon anyone. If our actions are screaming, “I DON"T WANT YOU! LEAVE ME ALONE!”, he will, with a heavy heart, honor that, though he is constantly trying to win us back. We have to WANT him, his salvation.

I’m sorry you feel like the Church abandoned you. I can’t imagine feeling like my Mother betrayed me. Everyone makes mistakes; the Church is full of humans, but she herself–and her Hubby–will never leave you. Ever.

PEACE

 

[st_lucy]

Heres the truth, Once you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior nothing will seperate you from his love ever, ever ever, even suicide or drugs. You can tell Jesus bad bad bad things and still have his grace and mercy and eternal life. God is a God of freedom of choice, and we who are saved chose him and his salvation,and now we belong to him and nothing will be able to strip that away. Eternity in heaven is our home and we are bought at the price of Jesus’ death. Saying that we could sin and leave or be left from Gods love after our salvation is like saying that his blood isn’t sufficient and doesn’t cover all sins today tomarrow and for the rest of everyones lives on earth. He who is free is free indeed! Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Ever…
The catholic church left me after nearly dieng from a suicide attempt about 3-4 years ago, they told me that according to their belief people who do that cannot go to heaven. I am now saved and since one year after the catholic church deserted me I am now clothed in Jesus Christ and have a freind and savior that will Never Leave me Nor Forsake me!

Who told you this? The Church could not take a stand like this. The Church is not God only He can decide who goes where. The Church just helps guide us to heaven. If an individual told you such a horrible thing than it is time you start researching the Church yourself so that you can learn for yourself what it is the Church teaches and not what others tell you it teaches.