Catholic Church as Anti-Semetic

[averheyen]

Ok, I was born and raised Catholic, and I hear this a lot from mostly non-catholics, but they accuse the catholic church of anti-semetism, especially during World War 2.

Now, I never (repeat NEVER) in all my time growing up catholic heard anything bad about jewish people from anybody who was catholic…

I’m just kinda curious as to where all this “anti-semetic” stuff comes from.

Any help?

 

[bengal_fan]

the catholic church has had many moments of outright anti-semitism throughout its history. WWII was not one of them. the “sin” of some of the church was in simply being compliant with the nazis and italian facists. the church did much underground during WWII to save more jews than any other organization in the world. but she did not use her prophetic voice to condemn loudly and publicly the things that were going on.

as for other parts in history, we have instances of forced conversions (these are by members… albeit usually large groups… of the church, not necessarily the church itself), persecution, outright killing, and anti-semitic rhetoric. we do have the church, at times, treating the jews as second class citizens. the 400 years the jews were forced into the ghettos in rome for instance. this was instituted by the pope. all the jews in spain were exiled in 1492 (yes, the same year “columbus sailed the ocean blue”). the pope at the time offered them sanctuary in rome (a great thing, condemning their treatment in spain and offering them protection and freedom). that pope died soon after many of the jews (the majority who did not flee to the middle east and settle in safed) came and settled in rome. the next pope was spanish and was a large influence in the jews being expelled from spain! he created an area of the city and put walls up around it and forced all the jews to live within this tiny area (the ghetto). they had to be back within the walls before sundown. they could not own businesses. they could not have a non-jewish servant. they were relegated to 2nd class citizens. they lived in this ghetto for 400 years. finally, in the early 1900’s the new pope lifted these restrictions and opened up the ghetto, permitting jews to move freely, own business and be full citizens. this freedom, however, lasted about 35 years until the facists (who were aligned with hitler) reinstituted the restrictions and forced the jews back into the ghetto (this last even was not done by the church… but it was not spoken out against either).

my point is that, yes, at times the church has been anti-semitic (and i mean all of Christianity, including orthodox and protestants… it’s just that we aren’t as old or as big so our horrible attitudes and deeds are not as widely discussed, but the lutheran church during WWII was also very compliant). at other times, she has refused to use her powerful voice to condemn anti-semitism. and at many times, she had done great things to support the jewish people.

 

[rpp]

the catholic church has had many moments of outright anti-semitism throughout its history. WWII was not one of them. the “sin” of some of the church was in simply being compliant with the nazis and italian facists. the church did much underground during WWII to save more jews than any other organization in the world. but she did not use her prophetic voice to condemn loudly and publicly the things that were going on.

as for other parts in history, we have instances of forced conversions (these are by members… albeit usually large groups… of the church, not necessarily the church itself), persecution, outright killing, and anti-semitic rhetoric. we do have the church, at times, treating the jews as second class citizens. the 400 years the jews were forced into the ghettos in rome for instance. this was instituted by the pope. all the jews in spain were exiled in 1492 (yes, the same year “columbus sailed the ocean blue”). the pope at the time offered them sanctuary in rome (a great thing, condemning their treatment in spain and offering them protection and freedom). that pope died soon after many of the jews (the majority who did not flee to the middle east and settle in safed) came and settled in rome. the next pope was spanish and was a large influence in the jews being expelled from spain! he created an area of the city and put walls up around it and forced all the jews to live within this tiny area (the ghetto). they had to be back within the walls before sundown. they could not own businesses. they could not have a non-jewish servant. they were relegated to 2nd class citizens. they lived in this ghetto for 400 years. finally, in the early 1900’s the new pope lifted these restrictions and opened up the ghetto, permitting jews to move freely, own business and be full citizens. this freedom, however, lasted about 35 years until the facists (who were aligned with hitler) reinstituted the restrictions and forced the jews back into the ghetto (this last even was not done by the church… but it was not spoken out against either).

my point is that, yes, at times the church has been anti-semitic (and i mean all of Christianity, including orthodox and protestants… it’s just that we aren’t as old or as big so our horrible attitudes and deeds are not as widely discussed, but the lutheran church during WWII was also very compliant). at other times, she has refused to use her powerful voice to condemn anti-semitism. and at many times, she had done great things to support the jewish people.

Lots of information here. It appears that it would be fascinating reading. Can you direct me to your sources?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

One should separately evaluate each accusation however here is a starting point

sullivan-county.com/identity/jew_haters.htm

 

[bengal_fan]

Lots of information here. It appears that it would be fascinating reading. Can you direct me to your sources?

sure, just about any history book you can get your hands on. especially medieval history.

specifically, just search anything on the expulsion of the jews from spain in 1492.

 

[rpp]

sure, just about any history book you can get your hands on. especially medieval history.

specifically, just search anything on the expulsion of the jews from spain in 1492.

Okay, so your assertions are not backed by fact, Thanks!

 

[Stolen_Rutters]

sure, just about any history book you can get your hands on. especially medieval history.

specifically, just search anything on the expulsion of the jews from spain in 1492.

newadvent.org/cathen/08386a.htm
Section 10 talks about this time period explicitly… and it does not back your assertions or conclusions, sorry. I will try to find another source.

This source does not back up your assertions, unless you hold that failing to speak out against anti-semitism every single time it happens is itself anti-semitic. (Willful anti-semitism by the church itself? I don’t see it.)

 

[fnz2thrght]

Okay, so your assertions are not backed by fact, Thanks!

Wait, let me get this straight. You are denying that the Spanish Inquisition never happened???

Again, like the OP said, pick up a history book.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

It’s worth noting that racial opposition to Jews first appeared around 1450. Before that time, it was all opposition to the Jewish religion, a view that is still considered “Anti-Semitism” by some. But which shouldn’t be. Christianity is the only fully true religion, though there may be seeds of truth in other religions. So to condemn a religion that doesn’t lead people to Christ, the only way to salvation, is valid. Even if it gets people into trouble nowadays.

Virtually all believers before 1450 were Anti-Semites, if that grotesque word is used to refer to people who felt that Christianity was the only true religion, and Christ the only way to salvation. Post 1450, racial intolerance toward Jews crept into Christianity, and that’s the form of Anti-Semitism that disturbs me.

 

[Maynoothman]

If I were you I’d mention the fact that we are big fans of Jesus Christ, his family and friends, their society and their beliefs.

Besides, Jesus wasnt even a Christian, he was a jew lol!

 

[rpp]

Wait, let me get this straight. You are denying that the Spanish Inquisition never happened???

Again, like the OP said, pick up a history book.

I never said or nor even implied that. What I did say is that bengal_fan’s was not able to provide any source material to support his account of how events transpired. There is a significant amount of misinformation regarding this time period as much of the history we have came from English authors writing during the time when England and Spain were bitter enemies. You should see the accounts of events in England written by the Spanish at this time; they too were engaged in propagandizing their people and vilifying the English, in the same way the English were trying to vilify their enemies, the Spanish.

As for the “pick up a history book” snipe, I suspect I am a bit better read on this particular topic than most people.

 

[bengal_fan]

As for the “pick up a history book” snipe, I suspect I am a bit better read on this particular topic than most people.

that comment made me laugh. if this were true, you wouldn’t have to ask me for sources. you would know the sources. not that you would agree with them, but you would know them.

i still say pick up a history book (not written by a catholic) and you will see how many historians agree (most in fact) that there has been anti-semitism in the catholic church… from the highest positions.

i just wish people could admit their mistakes. i have been more than willing to admit the numerous good things done for the jewish people by the catholic church. i have even stated more than any other organization, the catholic church has done good for the jews. but there have been ugly events that are irrefutable. so, i maintain. pick up a history book and read with your eyes open.

you might be more well read than most, but not all.

 

[bengal_fan]

Following Paul IV’s bull entitled Cum nimis absurdum (literally “when too much is absurd”, actually “when enough is enough”), issued in 1555, the 3,000 members of the community were forced to live within the ghetto’s boundary, originally called ‘the Jews’ enclosure’, whose total surface was about 8 acres.

taken from fordham university’s website.

The edicts issued at various times for the destruction of copies of the Talmud, the Bull “Cum nimis absurdum” of Paul IV constraining the Jews of Rome to live segregated in a Ghetto and subject to other harassing disabilities, represent rather the prejudices of individual pontiffs than any consistent principle of persecution.

new advent website.

even a catholic website says that there have been popes who have held and acted upon anti-semitic views. it states also (as i have) that these were individual views and not the view of the church as a whole. but what would the average jew of the day think when the pope is issuing orders that cause persecution for the jews? would they not think the church as a whole is persecuting them?

 

[joseph_virgen]

on a side note i wish to express a thought that has been simmering within me for a while. this thread offers me the opportunity to explain myself.

it has to do with that expression, the one that everybody throws about---------- ex-catholics. it should be changed.

i’m not ranting, really. it truly confounds me that instead of staying put and fighting for what they understand to being right, they flee in order to attack the catholic church. sadly, it appears that this number is growing.

so, if there are people who are questioning the catholic church-------------- good. debate, argue if you must, put yourself in the line of fire. but do not call yourself an ex-catholic. call yourself a quiter.

yes, it’s personal. God forgive me.

 

[Spiller]

How come there is so little discussion about the persecution of first and second century Catholic Christians by Jews?

 

[Kaninchen]

How come there is so little discussion about the persecution of first and second century Catholic Christians by Jews?

That’s quite possibly a very good question. It would be interesting to find out what Christians thought was going on during the Great Revolt and later Bar Kokhba Revolt - what us naughty, naughty Jews were up to as a sideline while being annihilated.

So, how about you tell us about the great pogrom against the Christians?

How was it organized, who led it, what massacres were carried out?

Source citations, particularly when witnessed by non-Christian sources, would be greatly appreciated, of course.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Wait, let me get this straight. You are denying that the Spanish Inquisition never happened???

Again, like the OP said, pick up a history book.

The Spanish Inquisition did not target non-Catholics. The inquisition targeted only Catholics that were suspected of heresy. Some of those were former Jews who had converted to Catholicism, but Jews themselves as a group were never targeted by the inquisition. The Spanish government, yes at times, but not the inquisition itself.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[rpp]

That’s quite possibly a very good question. It would be interesting to find out what Christians thought was going on during the Great Revolt and later Bar Kokhba Revolt - what us naughty, naughty Jews were up to as a sideline while being annihilated.

So, how about you tell us about the great pogrom against the Christians?

How was it organized, who led it, what massacres were carried out?

Source citations, particularly when witnessed by non-Christian sources, would be greatly appreciated, of course.

Can we cite the entire book of Acts in the Bible? Or is that to be discounted too because it was mostly Jews persecuting other Jews for following Christ. Remember, all the first Christians were Jews and all but one of the authors of the New Testament were Jews.

 

[bengal_fan]

How come there is so little discussion about the persecution of first and second century Catholic Christians by Jews?

there isn’t little discussion about it. there has been much written about it. although, the persecution by the jews was not as much physical as spiritual (i.e. expelling the Christians from the synagogues). indirectly, by the jews separating the Christians from them, they opened the door for the romans to persecute the Christians because it made the “new” religion unprotected. judaism was a protected religion. the jews of that time, indirectly caused the roman persecutions of Christians.

 

[Valke2]

How come there is so little discussion about the persecution of first and second century Catholic Christians by Jews?

Probably because there is virtually no proof of it. And that even if you assume every word you have ever heard about Jews persecuting Christians in the first and second century were true, it is so dwarfed by the actions taken against Jews because they were Jews, that it would be intellectually embarassing to bring it up as some sort of warped apologetic for antisemetic actions, teachings and policies that have been endorsed and/or implemented against Jews since the inception of the Church.