Catholic Evangalism

[idiopathogen]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicism_in_China

“For centuries, access to the people of China was difficult for the Catholic Church, because as a Church, she did not recognize local Confucian customs of honouring deceased family members. To the Chinese, this was an ancient ritual, to the Vatican, it was a religious exercise, which conflicted with Catholic dogma. As a result, the Church made little progress in China. Within month of his election, Pope Pius XII issued a dramatic change in policies. On December 8, 1939, the Sacred Congregation of the Propagation of Faith issues at request of Pius XII** new instruction**, by which Chinese customs were no longer considered superstitious, but a honourable way of esteeming ones relatives and therefore permitted by Catholic Christians. [2] The Government of China established diplomatic relations with the Vatican in 1943, within a short interval. The Papal degree changed the ecclesiastical situation in China in an almost revolutionary way. [3] As the Church began to flourish, Pius established a local ecclesiastical hierarchy, and, received the Archbishop of Peking, Thomas Tien Ken-sin SVD, in to the Sacred College of Cardinals. [4] After WWII, about four million Chinese were members of the Catholic faith. This was less than one percent of the population but numbers increased dramatically. In 1949, there existed”

Very different than Paul and the Thessalonians, right?

“For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost. So that ye were** ensamples to all that believe** in Macedonia and Achaia. For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how** ye turned to God** from idols to serve the living and true God; And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.” 1 Thess 1:5-10

Anyone have any meditations on apparent differences between conversions and the spread of Christianity in the early Church, and Catholic methods?

I’m sure you could find something suitable to justify this in 2 Compromise Chapter 3, right? Or how about 1 Opinions chapter 3 verse 4.

 

[Todd_Easton]

I don’t pretend to know anything about Chinese culture or this particular situation. I was unable to find an online copy of the Vatican document mentioned. However, if the pastors and teachers (Ephesians 4:11) at the Vatican, whom the Holy Spirit has made overseers, to care for the Church of God (Acts 20:28), who looked into the matter and discerned that the practice of honoring (not worshipping) deceased family members was not in conflict with Christianity, I have no problems with their judgment. After all, the Bible tells us to submit to our leaders and obey them. (Hebrews 13:17) Remember that not all pagan practices are evil. For instance, I don’t have a problem with the wearing of wedding rings which the Church received from the pagan Roman culture. As St. Paul said, “…test everything; hold fast what is good, abstain from every form of evil.” (1 Thessalonians 5:21-22)

 

[NotWorthy]

Very different than Paul and the Thessalonians, right?

“For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost. So that ye were** ensamples to all that believe** in Macedonia and Achaia. For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how** ye turned to God** from idols to serve the living and true God; And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.” 1 Thess 1:5-10

That’s odd. I read Paul in 1 Corinthians chapter 9 in the Church’s actions:

To the Jews I became like a Jew to win over Jews; to those under the law I became like one under the law–though I myself am not under the law–to win over those under the law. To those outside the law I became like one outside the law–though I am not outside God’s law but within the law of Christ–to win over those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some.

BTW, idio, what was it that was so pagan about the veneration for the dead that the Chinese were doing?

 

[Nita]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicism_in_China

“For centuries, access to the people of China was difficult for the Catholic Church, because as a Church, she did not recognize local Confucian customs of honouring deceased family members. To the Chinese, this was an ancient ritual, to the Vatican, it was a religious exercise, which conflicted with Catholic dogma. As a result, the Church made little progress in China. Within month of his election, Pope Pius XII issued a dramatic change in policies. On December 8, 1939, the Sacred Congregation of the Propagation of Faith issues at request of Pius XII** new instruction**, by which Chinese customs were no longer considered superstitious, but a honourable way of esteeming ones relatives and therefore permitted by Catholic Christians. [2] The Government of China established diplomatic relations with the Vatican in 1943, within a short interval. The Papal degree changed the ecclesiastical situation in China in an almost revolutionary way. [3] As the Church began to flourish, Pius established a local ecclesiastical hierarchy, and, received the Archbishop of Peking, Thomas Tien Ken-sin SVD, in to the Sacred College of Cardinals. [4] After WWII, about four million Chinese were members of the Catholic faith. This was less than one percent of the population but numbers increased dramatically. In 1949, there existed”

Very different than Paul and the Thessalonians, right?

.

Regarding Paul’s epistles:
I don’t recall anywhere that Paul says one can’t honor relatives - alive or deceased.

Regarding history of Catholic evangelization in China:

I’m going to make a few guesses here:

1. I’d guess pagan Chinese custom may have been (or been very close to) idolatry - or at least appeared that way to the original evangelizers. Their judgement of the way to handle the situation was to condemn it in their evangelization and forbid anything similar in practice to those who converted (for fear they would revert back to idolatry).
2. Pope Pius XII no doubt realized that absolute eradication of any veneration practices honoring the deceased was not necessary. In fact, it was contrary to Catholic teaching and practice (which does not mandate it, but recognizes it as acceptable). What evangelizers needed to do was to teach the proper veneration for the dead.
   Any promotion of the dead to the level of “gods” to be worshipped would still be forbidden. But, practices that honored them as humans, alive in eternity, are allowed.

Nita