Catholic Evangelism -- Leave it to Saints? No proselytizing?

  • Thread starter Thread starter jmm08
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jmm08

Guest
I was sadly thinking earlier today that I could not recall a living Roman Catholic taking the initiative to proselytize me.

The only time I’ve talked with Catholics is when I took the first initiative. Such as going to my local RC priest in June.

Or singing in the Catholic Chapel Choir in college years ago (with respect and as a non-Catholic). Back then, I had a brief discussion with someone planning to become a Priest on how to share Christ. He said: “You believe in a hard sell, we believe in a soft sell.” I don’t know if all Catholics think that way. Why a soft sell when lives are at stake – soft like somebody has to knock you over just to get the story out of you?

“Of all the pulpits from which human voice is ever sent forth, there is none from which it reaches so far as from the grave.” – John Ruskin, The Seven Lamps of Architecture, 1849

One very big Catholic witness was when I went on a tour in Hawaii in 1976 including a day-long trip to the Kalaupapa leper colony. I heard about Father Damian (aka Joseph de Veuster) from a leper, while I was not standing far from Father Damian’s grave. Unspoken words were loud enough in my mind.

“Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.”

Father Damian died from leprosy in Hawaii. He buried hundreds of lepers. Father Damian had the penultimate degree of Christian love for his mission field. Even though he was dead, Father Damian took the initiative to also tell me by sowing a seed that sprouted again and again, through leper after leper, through heart after heart, waiting years after years, until the leper told me his story. And it took years again for me to understand better that I needed to be a Catholic, not just a Christian. The story couldn’t have been framed any better or more indelibly. I am afraid of heights, and I had to ride a mule down a narrow switchback trail along very steep sea cliffs – the world’s tallest – just to get there and back.

I am going into RCIA / RCIC this year. But I easily could have gone to hell instead – and I still might I suppose, unless I continue.

The local Benedictine Sisters were a good and gentle witness at a seminar I attended about 9 years ago.

EWTN has played a big part in drawing me during the last few years. And watching the Pope on Christmas Eve.

Watching Archbishop Sheen on ESPN and reading his books lately has helped a lot. Through his words, Archbishop Sheen has taken an awful lot of time to explain quite a bit to me. And with a lot of details. He has been quite patient.

Concerning Bishop Sheen’s telecasts – he admits he is not proselytizing.

Why not I ask – he surely was the best trained person to do it.

He says people need to see the truth and be convinced themselves.

I still don’t get that part. I don’t understand why he didn’t try harder and I also don’t see how he could have done more or been more effective. Sheen’s wisdom reminds me of King Solomon. I am somewhat confused – but he is the wise Saint and my mind is much less sharp than his. I must admit his skill and abilities – he even explains what St. Paul did wrong on Mars Hill (he talked of many things but did not preach Christ and Him Crucified).

If wonder that if your dead didn’t speak (Father Damian and Archbishop Sheen), I might not have heard.

The State of Hawaii did its best to recognize Father Damian’s Sainthood with its placement in 1969 of Father Damian’s statue into the National Statuary Hall Collection (located in US Capital House connecting corridor, first floor). Just imagine that – a statue of a Catholic Saint in our US Congress. Subsequently, the Catholic Church began to increase its recognition of Father Damian. Father Damian is blessed at this time (2 out of 3 to be RC saint).

Archibishop Sheen is now referred to as “Servant of God”.
Pope John Paul II said to him “You have written and spoken well of the Lord Jesus. You are a loyal son of the Church.”
 
I hope my post bothers somebody and God calls them to an evangelistic work. If it was me, I’d say you all should try harder. But Archbishop Sheen knows better than me. And perhaps it starts within your Church first (to make sure Catholics are well-trained in their own faith).

And may God be bothered enough to call me as well – if it is possible to first teach me and work with me. I have so much to learn first.

On the same tour, I also saw what could easily pass for the Garden of Eden on the north shore of the big island of Hawaii. I never saw so many flowers and so much lush vegitation in one small place. I lived on Oahu at the very foot of Diamondhead that summer – but this was even better.

And the Hawaii Volcanos National Park could easily pass for hell. It stank like hell. Such a sulfur smell. We walked into the outer part of Kilauea crater (which has erupted several times since). The ground was hot – it almost cooked the bottom of my sneakers.
 
Your experiences are largely a part of the “New Ecumenism” fostered in the wake of Vatican II. I wish the priest from my church posted his sermon online; he delivered a great sermon disproving John XXIII in the first document of Vatican II, using an Encyclical from John Paul II. It was pretty amazing. Basically, John XXIII says that the Church no longer needs to condemn error as vehemently because the error is so plain to modern man. In John Paul II’s Encyclical, he states that modern man is blind to the error of modern society, etc. My priest expanded upon this and gave a great explication of truth as a concept, as well. In any event, even before Vatican II, many Catholics did not associate with Protestants (except, in some cases, in America) because of the fact that they realized that this kind of indifference to error can often be sinful. In any event, even in the past there was little verbal discussion with Protestants, but this was often because of the fact that there was little interaction with them. Further, Catholics often illustrated the beneficial aspects of faith through the examples of their lives. Also, most Catholics did not have the theological abilities to make in-depth defenses for the Faith, especially concerning biblical proofs even though Catholics at that time were much more able to explain and understand the Faith then than they are today; they recognized the differences between theologians and laymen. This is another problem with the New Evangelism; not only are more Catholics openly reading the Bible with guidance, they are also engaging Protestants “ecumenically,” but because they don’t know the Faith as well, they often cannot defend it well enough, and they become indifferent to the errors of protestantism and sometimes even defect from the Faith, usually unable to convert them. Nowadays there are fewer converts than before Vatican II, and almost all of the converts I know were converted either by reading material from Catholic theologians or by their own studies in Scripture which lead them to Catholic principles. God bless.
 
I’m with jmm08–both in terms of starting RCIA next week and in terms of his sentiments. No individual Catholic has ever talked to me about the Catholic Church’s claim to true church-hood, and when I have talked to Catholics, they seem to have gone out of their way to avoid the topic.

I remember when I saw the notice in the local paper that the local radio station at AM-1460 was being sold by the Southern Gospel music folks that had used it to Queen of Peace Radio, my first thoughts were negative. However, it was EWTN radio through that station that planted the seeds that sprouted last fall, when I first saw that individual interpretation of Holy Scripture could only be an invitation to disaster. And it was EWTN and FamilyLand Television that continued to plant seeds and answer questions. Even at this point my contact with individual Catholics has been extremely limited.

I read in one of the conversion stories that the convert’s priest was hoping that his on-fire attitude (which, sadly, converts more so than cradle Catholics seem to have) would serve to “evangelize the sacramentalized”–light a fire under the cradle Catholics in the congregation. That’s a sad commentary on the state of the Church that I am entering. Jesus’ command was to go into all the world and preach the gospel, not just let the dead saints speak for you.

From the CCC:
2472 The duty of Christians to take part in the life of the Church impels them to act as witnesses of the Gospel and of the obligations that flow from it. This witness is a transmission of the faith in words and deeds. Witness is an act of justice that establishes the truth or makes it known. All Christians by the example of their lives and the witness of their word, wherever they live, have an obligation to manifest the new man which they have put on in Baptism and to reveal the power of the Holy Spirit by whom they were strengthened at Confirmation.
Click to expand...
(Italics in original; bolding is mine)

DaveBj
 
If error is so plain to modern man then why is man so busy making error the law of the land?

I hope that somebody with connections could print all this and send it to Cardinal Ratzinger or somebody who would do something. Or perhaps that the Cardinal or Pope John Paul II could be bothered greatly in a dream the way St. Paul was concerning Macedonia (Acts 16:9).

Or is the following saying still true: “One wastes time and money in ministering to blacks. . . . What reason can there be that you are so solicitous for the Negro?” - a priest, cited in The Miserable Condition of Black Catholics in America, 1903.

God is in control. And I love our Pope. I noticed recently that some of what Pope John Paul II says can be also prayed as a powerful prayer.

But today I am still in much sorrow and perhaps bitterness. See my post #3 and #5 under “Miscellaneous / Fill in the Blank ____________” Send them also to Cardinal Ratzinger or the Pope or put them in the dream too. Deaths at my Baptist Church now make me very sad.

I could be wrong and way wrong – I haven’t been to RCIA / RCIC class yet. And I’m getting older and maybe I’m not so sharp anymore.

I don’t want to boast of my error. As a Protestant, I was well trained in evangelism. In younger days, I led more than 1,000 people in a sinner’s prayer (unpaid, part-time over a period of almost 7 years). They needed to want Jesus more than they wanted their sin. If they wanted Jesus that much I led them in prayer and told them they were saved and going to heaven (John 1:12). I gave them Protestant translation New Testaments (NIV). Many lives were changed. One person told me they stopped smoking dope after I talked with them. And I didn’t even tell them to. But if it takes only one mortal sin to die and burn in hell and if the Catholic Church with the ministry of reconciliation (confession / penance) is the only way to recover from a state of mortal sin, then an awful lot of Protestants are going to hell. The man who trained me and ordained me (as an evangelist) personally spoke with so many, many more people. His sad and lonely suicide eight years ago also spoke to me – and almost seemed to point another way unknown to him. I want no recognition for myself. I’d just rather see my Baptist Brethren find the truth if it is the truth.

But let’s cheer up a little. You know something? When Blessed Father Damian gets to be a Saint, our nation’s capital will start to look a little more like a Roman Catholic Church (with his wonderful and very unique statue already inside it). Isn’t that going to be a miracle? Would it count towards his Sainthood?
 
40.png
jmm08:
If error is so plain to modern man then why is man so busy making error the law of the land?

I hope that somebody with connections could print all this and send it to Cardinal Ratzinger or somebody who would do something. Or perhaps that the Cardinal or Pope John Paul II could be bothered greatly in a dream the way St. Paul was concerning Macedonia (Acts 16:9).

Or is the following saying still true: “One wastes time and money in ministering to blacks. . . . What reason can there be that you are so solicitous for the Negro?” - a priest, cited in The Miserable Condition of Black Catholics in America, 1903.
Click to expand...

That is repulsive 😦 - the Church is not for whites alone. 😦 It started with an all-Jewish membership, for crying out loud. Of all infirmities found among Christians, racialism is the most stupid, IMO.​

 
jmm08,

Well, your post did bother me. You are right, I have never evangilized anyone. I will start Saturday, at the abortion mill, thanks to you. God bless your devotion to Father Damian and Archbishop Sheen. Thank you for a post that actually made a difference in my life.

Chris
 
I was connected to the evangelical denomination for five years. In that time they collected tithes for the church and a voluntary mission pledge - which was substantial for the size of the church.

Catholics give on the collection plate, and then they presumably respond to crisis around the world.

The Bible tells us to tithe, and in a book I recently read the Catholic Brennan Manning tithes to the poor.

I believe that the best kind of evangelizing is to help the poor with their needs, by supporting them directly, or indirectly through Catholic Charities and the Missions. But I also feel that the bible does specify tithing to the church.

What shocks me is the way some churches dole out Bibles to Africans who are barely surviving from lack of food, and who would do much better with a clockwork radio, through which they could join groups that would help them with their human rights and stamp out corruption.

What shocked me more was a Catholic who said to me that he was building schools for Catholics in Africa, and later he condemned the Muslems for bribing (prosthelitzing) people to join their faith through feeding programs.

My answer to him was ’ If its okay for the Catholics to do it - then its okay for the Muslims. As long as the hungry get fed.’

Maybe Jesus was giving us the same message in his miracles of the Feeding of the Five Thousand and the Multitude. The best form of evangelization is to feed the hungry, or like one saint did, take the place of the Jew who was last in the line that day for the gas chambers. Surely it is about showing love.
 
Hi,
40.png
jmm08:
I was sadly thinking earlier today that I could not recall a living Roman Catholic taking the initiative to proselytize me.

The only time I’ve talked with Catholics is when I took the first initiative. Such as going to my local RC priest in June.

…

He said: “You believe in a hard sell, we believe in a soft sell.” I don’t know if all Catholics think that way. Why a soft sell when lives are at stake – soft like somebody has to knock you over just to get the story out of you?
…

He says people need to see the truth and be convinced themselves.

…

If wonder that if your dead didn’t speak (Father Damian and Archbishop Sheen), I might not have heard.
Click to expand...
I would say that there are many Catholics that do evagelize, but mostly your experience is true.

But, that is the point –
We believe in the Communion of Saints. Our Dead DO speak because they are still with us.
And who better to speak than someone who is already in heaven ?

Furthermore, Catholics don’t preach the “alternative” lifestyle.

Many other evangelicals preach Jesus as the “alternative” life style.
This is how the world lives <–> this is how a Christian lives.
Us vs. them.
Lost vs. saved.
In the world vs. of the world

Catholics see that God created everything good and the Garden of Eden is the way things should be.
The Catholic way is the only way, of course.

Everybody else is living the “alternative” lifestyle.

Once they see us - Once they learn the truth -
their heart will tug at them.

The heart will want to return to it’s true home.

2 G.K. Chesterton Quotes to send this message home​

That “God looked on all things and saw that they were good” …
It is the thesis that there are no bad things, but only bad uses of things … there are no bad Things but only bad thoughts; and especially bad intentions.
Only Calvinists can really believe that hell is paved with good intentions.
That is exactly the one thing it cannot be paved with. 😉
  • – G.K. Chesterton - Saint Thomas Aquinas : The Dumb Ox*
The moment men cease to pull against [the Catholic Church] they feel a tug towards it. The moment they cease to shout it down they begin to listen to it with pleasure. The moment they try to be fair to it they begin to be fond of it.👍

- G.K. Chesterton The Catholic Church and Conversion, Ch. 3 “The Real Obstacles”
 
Dear Jmm and Dave,

I’m sorry that nobody evangelized you…however, if you are already Christians then you already have had the “Good News”. I have found that most Catholics don’t evangelize because the are defending the Faith…a wonderful thing. It is the ones who are truly ‘living’ their faith that is sometimes worth more that any words could say… this was one of the reasons for my conversion. St Francis said,“Preach the Gospel always and if necessary use words”… Annunciata:)
 
Apologies to all if you think I’m over-reacting. I should not be criticizing at all. I’d be an impolite wedding guest if I said the bride didn’t look good. I am still too ignorant of the Catholic Church to know very much, but I know that Christ’s Bride is beautiful.
40.png
chrisg93:
jmm08,

Well, your post did bother me. You are right, I have never evangilized anyone. I will start Saturday, at the abortion mill, thanks to you. God bless your devotion to Father Damian and Archbishop Sheen. Thank you for a post that actually made a difference in my life.

Chris
Click to expand...
Chris: Great. Before becoming more effective in evangelization years ago, I first started by going with some people about once a month to protest against abortion. It can get you stirred up, so be careful to stay within the law. I hope you can work with some who are experienced at it – and hope there some in your Church you can work with. My advice is to not do so much that you soon stop. Instead do what you can be faithful to do for a long time.

How can I say I’m devoted to Father Damian and Archbishop Sheen? I didn’t expect to be permanently struck by Father Damian’s story. And Archbishop Sheen has been so much more devoted in his ministry to me. Last night, I couldn’t properly pray “A Prayer to St. Joseph” including the request “I choose thee this day to be my special patron and advocate…”. Because it seemed way too obvious to me that Fulton Sheen had already begun the task even before I would know enough to ask him.
 
Gottle of Geer: That is clear to me now. But I needed to research and ask almost a month ago because I didn’t know for sure. The most vocal criticism of the Roman Catholic Church on racism was from within. I quoted from “Racism and Religion: Partners in Crime?” originally published in “Salt of the Earth” (see salt.claretianpubs.org/issues/racism/unsworth.html and please read it). I needed to see that article to help convince me that the Catholic Church was where I need to go. The American Catholic Church’s confession and contrition regarding racism seems genuine to me. So I must forgive and not reject the Catholic Church with racism as an excuse. But I also worry if I can convince my wife.

A recent university study concluded that religious schools and most notably Catholic schools are among the most segregated schools in the United States. See researchmatters.harvard.edu/story.php?article_id=479

This year, the US Supreme court upheld reverse discrimination in part because Blacks and other minorities can easily get the impression that they are not included in our society if very few of them make it to higher ranks in various professions. That would be the result in some professions if reverse discrimination were eliminated. And if a result of minority perception is their reduced participation in democracy or in voting, perceptions threaten democracy. For democracy to work it requires equitable participation and voting. The US Supreme court therefore ruled in a manner to support and protect the Constitution – with what I think is very understandable logic. I was not in favor of continued reverse discrimination, but their argument convinces me of the higher justice involved in the interest of protecting our nation’s great Constitution.

Similarly I suppose, if Blacks perceive that the American Roman Catholic Church is not their Church then they will never consider joining it. Many Blacks think that the American Roman Catholic Church is not their Church – despite the fact that it is their Church. The same logical argument used by the US Supreme Court should perhaps be examined by the American Catholic Bishops when they plan their evangelistic efforts. We have friends at our Baptist Church who came from Jamaica years ago (as Catholics) and instead joined our Baptist Church. I don’t know why they left the Catholic Church, but my perception is that their perceived racism (real or not) could have played a part in their decision. Even easily believable perception of perceived racism is very harmful.

The KKK says miscogenation caused Israel to be cursed (Judges 3:6-7, Num 25:1-8). Miscogenation was still against the law in many Southern American States until 1967 (read United States Supreme Court in Loving v. Virginia – and if you really want to see how sick things were in the 1960s read more about what happened). I am White and my wife is Black. I honestly didn’t know for sure what the Roman Catholic position was on miscogenation (or how a Virginia Roman Catholic congregation might welcome us) until I asked less than a month ago in this forum.

Biblically, the problems in the Old Testament quoted by the KKK were with Jews marrying outside and starting to worship idols and foreign gods. Isn’t the KKK an excellent argument against solo scriptura (reading and interpreting written scripture without Divine Guidance of any sort). Race never was the problem with God. In Numbers 12:1, Moses had married a Cushite (Ethiopian, Black) woman and Miriam and Aaron had something to say about it. God (Numbers 12:10) made Miriam a leper – primarily because God hated racism but also because they shouldn’t have spoken against Moses. And look at the book of Ruth. Ruth was of a mixed race (Moabite) and she becomes part of the Messianic lineage.
 
Good Morning Church
Good Morning JMM

Thank you JMM. This needs to be said over and over and over.
We are called to evangelize.

How hard is it for a Catholic to tell someone that Jesus loves them. That He is in control.
Evangelization is NOT the same as Apologetics or talking to them about the Catechism. Evangelization should bring about conversion of the heart. Catholics have the fullness of Truth. That means they should know Jesus as well as they know anything. They should exude their love for Jesus and want to share Him.

The fact is, we need more than anything else to evangelize other Catholics.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_14.gif
 
40.png
Annunciata:
Dear Jmm and Dave,

I’m sorry that nobody evangelized you…however, if you are already Christians then you already have had the “Good News”. I have found that most Catholics don’t evangelize because the are defending the Faith…a wonderful thing. It is the ones who are truly ‘living’ their faith that is sometimes worth more that any words could say… this was one of the reasons for my conversion. St Francis said,“Preach the Gospel always and if necessary use words”… Annunciata:)
Click to expand...
I may have had the “Good News”. But not good enough news, considering that I was (and may still be) in a state of mortal sin. If the CCC is correct and the sacrament of reconciliation (Confession / Penance) is required to deal with mortal sin, then where was I going? As I understand it, I am not still in a state of mortal sin as long as I do intend to go to confession when I am able to – and if I have perfect contrition. But not having been catechized very much other than reading on my own, that is a little like hanging from a thread.
40.png
jmm08:
His sad and lonely suicide eight years ago …
Click to expand...
Maybe Larry wouldn’t have put a gun to his head if he knew of the sacrament of reconciliation. And if he had often gone to confession and done penance. I greatly look forward to being reconciled myself.

The old Negro Spiritual is particularly true in my heart:
“Nobody knows the trouble I’ve seen.
Nobody knows but Jesus.”
I do take comfort in that. And Jesus understands and wants me to embrace him all the more.

Sure, if a Protestant is fortunate enough to hear and respond to the gospel being correctly presented – it can save I hope – and I hope I presented the gospel correctly enough when I talked to others. But CCC says we need the sacraments. How many of you after being confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church have not sinned a mortal sin afterwards? Is the Protestant gospel message adequate to remedy a Christian’s state of mortal sin? Even if that were so, the vast majority of Protestant ministers are not good at warning their congregations of many mortal sins (abortion, birth control, homosexuality, pre-marital sex, various heresies).

They worry if they did talk too close to home about sin, they might lose Church members or attendance could fall. That is one thing I like about certain Catholic religious orders. The love of money becomes less likely to influence the message spoken from the pulpit. I’m glad I never intended to personally collect any money from my religious activites. Somebody gave me $5 once and I wanted to give it back, but they insisted. Money can blind the truth.

Anyway, we were evangelized. I was evangelized by Father Damian, EWTN, Archbishop Sheen and others. And perhaps I was reached the only way that God could reach me. Maybe I was too stubborn.

I used to listen to “A Closer Walk” on the radio with Father Harold Cohen. I recall (perhaps incorrectly) that on one show he said being a Protestant was not good enough for salvation – joining the Catholic Church was required. I don’t know if he was breaking your rules by proselytizing. At that time I was not convinced, although I liked to listen to him. Maybe there was insufficient reasoning behind his statement.

I agree with what St. Francis says. Actions speak louder than words. Father Damian spoke very loudly from his grave. But his message of Christian love was initially not enough for me to say Catholic vs. Protestant. In the context of examining the Holy Eucharist, this is where it becomes evident. Father Damian was not an idol worshipper (as Jack Chick tracts would have me think). So his message recently became part of the proof to me that Roman Catholics were correct.
 
Great post.

You are correct - Catholics tend not to evangelize their Christians brethren, and I attribute it to three reasons:
  1. Lack of a call to evangelize. Don’t know whether this is a product of V2 or not, it just is.
  2. Language barrier. Even if both parties speak English, Catholics and Protestants don’t speak the same language when it comes to theological issues. “Saved” and “justified by faith,” for example, means something far different to the two sides.
  3. Fear. Protestants, generally speaking, know their Bible better. They read it, they study it, and they participate in Bible studies in far greater numbers and percentages than their Catholic counterparts. Plus, they concern themselves with just spreading the Good News, and they have an easier conversion apparatus (“just accept Jesus in your heart - it’s easy!”). We have to not only spread the news, but we also have to counter misinformation AND we have a tougher message (live your life like Christ), and that makes our job more difficult.
And whereas they hear Protestant apologetics on an almost daily or weekly basis (listen to an evangelical radio show and note how they often explain away Catholic doctrine, explicitly or implicitly), most of you had to come here for a lesson in Catholic apologetics, didn’t you? I’m not saying that our priests are falling down on the job - it’s their job to keep us on a holy path, not to tell Protestants how wrong they are.

It’s not just a tough job - it can also be done badly, and, if so, it will only drive people away from the Church. Go here for an example of what I’m talking about.
 
I’m over limit – it will take a few posts.
The Barrister:
  1. Language barrier. Even if both parties speak English, Catholics and Protestants don’t speak the same language when it comes to theological issues. “Saved” and “justified by faith,” for example, means something far different to the two sides.
Click to expand...
Absolutely true. When I was in College, I went the library to find a Catholic Bible. And I compared it side by side with my own Bible. It took hours for me to analyze the situation (more than one sitting). The Catholic Bible was one of the older ones with really different names on some Old Testament books. It took awhile, but I was convinced that much of it was very much the same (except for the names of books in the Old Testament). And there were some OT extra books (I think the Catholic Bible even denoted all apocryphal text as apocrypha). I read several chapters of each apocryphal book trying to discern for myself if they were canonical. I saw some truth in many of those books, but had some doubts. At this time, I understand better. And I suppose that many of these books require a full understanding of the Old Testament and perhaps some wisdom that comes with age and experience. The NAB is so much easier to accept. And I do accept it as better than any Protestant Bible I’ve ever used.
 
The Barrister:
  1. Fear. Protestants, generally speaking, know their Bible better. They read it, they study it, and they participate in Bible studies in far greater numbers and percentages than their Catholic counterparts. Plus, they concern themselves with just spreading the Good News, and they have an easier conversion apparatus (“just accept Jesus in your heart - it’s easy!”). We have to not only spread the news, but we also have to counter misinformation AND we have a tougher message (live your life like Christ), and that makes our job more difficult.
Click to expand...
A lot of Protestants know their favorite gospel singers better than the good book. But some like me are serious about studying the Bible.

I think the actual answer for the Catholic Church is to improve Christian discipleship. And to encourage it more as an on-going exercise needed by all Catholics. Evangelism is just one proper by-product of correct Christian discipleship. Same as prayer, fasting and obedience to God.

If a Christian has no heart for missions or evangelism, my opinion is that their discipleship must have been seriously flawed. Can one be a Christian by only faith and good works? No. Isn’t a Christian Heart also required (read 1 Corinthians Chapter 13). Maybe I’m being dangerous inventing something new, but I think not. Resounding gongs or clashing cymbals aren’t good enough. Without love we are nothing.

Are there any Catholic Saints without Christian Hearts?
 
The Barrister:
And whereas they hear Protestant apologetics on an almost daily or weekly basis (listen to an evangelical radio show and note how they often explain away Catholic doctrine, explicitly or implicitly), most of you had to come here for a lesson in Catholic apologetics, didn’t you? I’m not saying that our priests are falling down on the job - it’s their job to keep us on a holy path, not to tell Protestants how wrong they are.

It’s not just a tough job - it can also be done badly, and, if so, it will only drive people away from the Church. Go here for an example of what I’m talking about.
Click to expand...
I think my local RC Priests are very good at talking about sin and at talking about error. I’ve heard almost 10 homilies and the included (abortion, baseball, the trinity, jehovahs witnesses, marriage, etc.). You get baseball and sports sometimes anywhere you go. But the homilies do talk more specifically about sin and heresy more often than I would hear in most Protestant Churches.

Evangelism doesn’t need to always be apologetics. Evangelism can be as simple as inviting your neighbor to come to Church with you some time. Perhaps the first time a bazaar and the next time to a Mass. I’ve been to the last several raffles and bazaars at the Catholic Church. This last time with the family. The Catholic raffle is the best around here (prizes included five nice new cars). What if somebody would have said yes and would have come to Church with you – but you never asked? I sat in the Catholic Chapel Choir for a year and didn’t have many discussions. But I remember one guy who took time to show me his hobby (ham radio). Even that could eventually work sometimes – especially if your friend is unchurched.

As an evangelist (years ago), I never did argumentative apologetics. If somebody wasn’t ready for Jesus, then God didn’t have them ready for me to talk with them. I simply went to somebody else. Oh. And by the way, I quickly learned from St. James to go for the poor. Some places are like fishing out of a barrel. Go where people already know they need Jesus, but just don’t have anyone interested in coming to them.

Your message of salvation is more complex, but not if you let God do the work. There are conditions that must be met to receive the sacraments. But really, if you want to see somebody get saved you have an easy way to get them started. I am convinced that if you bring somebody to Mass and simply have them intentionally bless themselves with the Holy Water when they come in. That alone would do so much. Even your CCC says a blessing is the most powerful sacramental. And it can make somebody more willing and able to receive the sacraments. Sure it may take time before their heart changes, but let God do the work. Evangelism requires a combination of taking the initiative, leaving results to God, prayer and letting God do the work required of Him.

When President Kennedy was shot, like many other children I felt sorry for that little boy on TV – John F. Kennedy, Jr. – who was holding his mother’s hand (he was smaller than me). He didn’t have his daddy any more.

When John F. Kennedy, Jr.'s airplane was missing, for some reason I thought just in case the Catholics are right I’m going over to All Saints Catholic Church and pray for them to be found alive. I went in the empty Church, blessed myself with Holy Water, said a simple prayer to Mary in front of all the candles, lit a candle and may have put a token donation in the poor box. Man was I crazy or what? Well, I always felt some child-like love for John F. Kennedy, Jr. (perhaps like so many other Americans my age). I know that is how miracles can happen. With Faith, Hope and Love. When they were found dead I thought to myself “well my praying didn’t help.” Perhaps it helped me instead.
 
robertaf said:
Good Morning Church
Good Morning JMM

Thank you JMM. This needs to be said over and over and over.
We are called to evangelize.

How hard is it for a Catholic to tell someone that Jesus loves them. That He is in control.
Evangelization is NOT the same as Apologetics or talking to them about the Catechism. Evangelization should bring about conversion of the heart. Catholics have the fullness of Truth. That means they should know Jesus as well as they know anything. They should exude their love for Jesus and want to share Him.

The fact is, we need more than anything else to evangelize other Catholics.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_14.gif
Click to expand...
Hi… I would love to know how Catholic evangelize to someone. What bible verse does one uses to show that Jesus is the center of it all? Is the verse from John14:6 Jesus saith unto him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” ever mentioned or discussed? How does one evangelize to show someone that Jesus came into the world, suffered and died for all of humanities sins forever?

In Christ alone…
Leny
 
It’s not a problem of Vatican II, but of not obeying Vatican II. Here are some examples of what lay people are mandated to do (as well as some statements by subsequent popes.) Of course this does not include the multitude of statements and documents dealing with the missions and with the role of clergy:

Vatican II, Dignitatus Humanae
vatican.va/archive/hist_c…umanae_en.html

The disciple is bound by a grave obligation toward Christ, his Master, ever more fully to understand the truth received from Him, faithfully to proclaim it, and vigorously to defend it, never-be it understood-having recourse to means that are incompatible with the spirit of the Gospel.

Vatican II, Lumen Gentium:
vatican.va/archive/hist_c…entium_en.html
11. It is through the sacraments and the exercise of the virtues that the sacred nature and organic structure of the priestly community is brought into operation. Incorporated in the Church through baptism, the faithful are destined by the baptismal character for the worship of the Christian religion; reborn as sons of God they must confess before men the faith which they have received from God through the Church (4*). They are more perfectly bound to the Church by the sacrament of Confirmation, and the Holy Spirit endows them with special strength so that they are more strictly obliged to spread and defend the faith, both by word and by deed, as true witnesses of Christ (5*).

Vatican II, Gaudium et Spes,
vatican.va/archive/hist_c…t-spes_en.html
This love and good will, to be sure, must in no way render us indifferent to truth and goodness. Indeed love itself impels the disciples of Christ to speak the saving truth to all men. But it is necessary to distinguish between error, which always merits repudiation, and the person in error, who never loses the dignity of being a person even when he is flawed by false or inadequate religious notions.(10) God alone is the judge and searcher of hearts, for that reason He forbids us to make judgments about the internal guilt of anyone.(11)

Vatican II decree on the Apostolate of the Laity
ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/v2laity.htm

“However, an apostolate of this kind does not consist only in the witness of one’s way of life; a true apostle looks for opportunities to announce Christ by words addressed either to non-believers with a view to leading them to faith, or to the faithful with a view to instructing, strengthening, and encouraging them to a more fervent life. “For the charity of Christ impels us” (2 Cor. 5:14). The words of the Apostle should echo in all hearts, “Woe to me if I do not preach the Gospel” (1 Cor. 9:16).(1) Since, in our own times, new problems are arising and very serious errors are circulating which tend to undermine the foundations of religion, the moral order, and human society itself, this sacred synod earnestly exhorts laymen-each according to his own gifts of intelligence and learning-to be more diligent in doing what they can to explain, defend, and properly apply Christian principles to the problems of our era in accordance with the mind of the Church.”

Vatican II decree on Social Communication (of course, the internet didn’t exist then):
ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/v2commun.htm
  1. It is quite unbecoming for the Church’s children idly to permit the message of salvation to be thwarted or impeded by the technical delays or expenses, however vast, which are encountered by the very nature of these media. Therefore, this sacred Synod advises them of the obligation they have to maintain and assist Catholic newspapers, periodicals and film projects, radio and television programs and stations, whose principal objective is to spread and defend the truth and foster Christian influence in human society. At the same time, the Synod earnestly invites those organizations and individuals who possess financial and technical ability to support these media freely and generously with their resources and their skills, inasmuch as they contribute to genuine culture and the apostolate.
continued…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top