Catholic marrying in Protestant church - advice please

[quiet52]

Question 2: how can I make a formal representation for myself? Is there any way i can appeal this decision? Do you consider this decision to be fair and just? Are there other examples of Catholic services being carried out in Protestant churches?

You can appeal by writing a letter to your diocese’s Tribunal Office, but it is unlikely that the decision will be changed, for reasons already given in this thread. Aesthetic preference is not considered an extraordinary reason for two Catholics to marry outside of a Catholic church. The decision made by the diocese was not unfair or unjust.

If you can prove that your fiance has formally rejected her Catholic faith, you might have a stronger ground not to marry in a Catholic church, but aesthetic reasons is still not a good reason. You would still need to participate in marriage preparation, you would need to petition the bishop to marry a non-Catholic, you would attach a letter requesting permission to marry outside of a Catholic church, and you still might not receive permission to marry outside of a Catholic church.

Permission for a Catholic Wedding in a Secular Location: A request for a mixed or disparity of cult marriage by a Catholic priest or deacon in a location other than a Catholic church or oratory are to be submitted in the form of a letter from the Catholic party attached to this petition. This letter is to give the reasons for the request, the name and address of the proposed place, and a complete description of the indoor setting that is proposed for the marriage. A letter of agreement to this arrangement by the officiating priest or deacon must also be included with the request…

I hope that you won’t encourage your fiance to formally reject her Catholic faith, just to appease her desire to marry in a place that’s pretty to her.

Question 3: Do you consider I am trying to achieve something unreasonable here? The Church was previously Catholic and was built by Catholics to glorify God?

No matter its history, the church your fiance wants to get married in is not a Catholic church.

You stated you are a practicing Catholic. Have the two of you met with a priest yet, to begin your preparation for marriage? I hope that priority isn’t being given to the site of the wedding over the need to prepare for your marriage. Marriage is a sacrament, and a church event, not merely a private event between you and your fiance.

 

[SybilMolly]

The fact that it used to be a Catholic Church is irrelevant. Our Church used to be a lawyers office but we don’t have consulting hours for anyone but Him.

 

[robwar]

Op,
if she doesn’t want to be married in a Catholic Church, how do you know that her promise of letting you raise the children Catholic is not just lip service here? Anyone can promise anything in order to get married and then once married put their foot down about the rest. Likewise, what is the interest here in marrying someone that doesn’t believe in God or currently is a practicing Catholic? I am sure she is nice but with you in the Army and traveling around, she would have the children with her and what is going to make her take them to Church if you are not there? The church issue and where you are getting married is a sign of bigger issues to follow.

 

[His_helpmeet]

OP, I just checked the Policy and Procedure manual for my Archdiocese. According to them, a Catholic may marry outside the Catholic Church only if it is a mixed marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic. A dispensation from the local Ordinary (the bishop) of the Catholic party is required. In the case of a dispensation request, your priest or deacon must send the request to the bishop, the prenuptial file must be reviewed and a reason must be given for requesting the dispensation.

Your DF, though not practicing, is still a Catholic. Baptism places an indelible mark on the soul. Because she was baptized Catholic, she is still bound by the precepts of the Catholic Church until death. One of those precepts is to respect the laws of the Church concerning marriage. Consequently, because you are both Catholic, there is not a reason for a dispensation. “I want to get married in a prettier church” is not a valid reason. Failure to comply with the decision of the bishop will affect the validity of your marriage, because this is a dispensation, not a permission. (A dispensation affects whether or not the marriage is valid (i.e. a true marriage covenant exists). A permission affects whether a marriage is licit (i.e. whether or not it is performed according to the laws of the Church).)

I don’t think, realistically, that you have recourse to appeal the decision made by the bishop. The bishop, as the local Ordinary, is the only person (as far as I know) to make these kinds of decisions for his diocese. You asked for a dispensation. He said no. Now, you have, effectively, three options: marry your DF in a Catholic parish, marry your DF in the other parish or in a civil ceremony (you should be aware that as a result of this, you would be in an invalid marriage and would not be permitted to receive the sacraments until this has been rectified), or decide to end the engagement.

Forgot to add: if the vicar of this church is receiving your consent and signing the register, he is considered the officiant at the marriage ceremony. As a consequence, this is not a Catholic wedding and the validity of the marriage WILL be affected if you do not have a dispensation.

 

[broadside]

Hello all.

In case you are interested, just to let you know dispensation was granted.

Thanks for all of your advice.

For those of you enjoying whiling away some time some idle time glibly speculating about the likely future success of my marriage, (which wasn’t really the topic) I’d be grateful of your prayers for its success

 

[blaskoman]

Funny thread (in the sense that broadside appeared intent on broadsiding all relevant advice given!). Based on the info given, there is no way a Catholic bishop would have granted a dispensation!

 

[broadside]

Funny thread (in the sense that broadside appeared intent on broadsiding all relevant advice given!). Based on the info given, there is no way a Catholic bishop would have granted a dispensation!

Well, Blaskoman, I hope it doesn’t disappoint you too much to learn that , based on the information given, a dispensation has indeed been granted. Chin up

 

[blaskoman]

Yup I’m disappointed that you, as a catholic, compromised your faith. Looks like she’s calling the shots and wears the pants in the relationship.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

This is an easy one to answer. Contact your Bishop. He is the only one that can give permission to have a change of venue such as outdoors or chapel that is not catholic. Contact your Bishop.

 

[broadside]

Yup I’m disappointed that you, as a catholic, compromised your faith. Looks like she’s calling the shots and wears the pants in the relationship.

Take deep breaths Bkaskoman! This descent to personal insult is unnecessary. No-one asked anyone’s opinion about pant-wearing! I’m satisfied that, as she has given her word to have the children raised as Catholics and accompany me to Mass, each Sunday doing what I can to humour her over venue location is harmless enough provided that it is a valid sacrament (which it will be).

1god1church … Thanks for your succinct answer … I now have done, I was just reporting back.

If only people hadn’t commissioned such a lot of horrendously ugly Churches from the 60s onwards!!! Absolutely appalling. Before anyone lectures me, I know theist important thing is what happens in the Church and not what it looks like … But still … as Kenneth Clark said the buildings a civilisation produce tell us a lot more accurately about a people than what they decided to write about themselves!

 

[FAB]

Everything 1ke said.

I also agree with 1Ke,

I would go futher. I regularly prepare couples for marriage and these types of issue arrise with mixed marrages, Catholic to non Catholics. I realize she was baptised Catholic, and is still Catholic and will always be Catholic,(there is no renucination of the faith) but was not formed in the faith.

My question is to the OP. How strong is your Catholic Faith? Why are you willing to go against all that you have been taught? And even though the venue is pretty, I am certain that there are Catholic church’s with much more grandure, what’s wrong with finding one?
Love is a wonderful thing, but it sounds like you are willing to make all the compramises even with your faith. This is not a good way to start a marrage.

 

[broadside]

My question is to the OP. How strong is your Catholic Faith? Why are you willing to go against all that you have been taught?

Nnot very impressed with your ability ability to think at all clearly. What on earth has been said to give you the impression that I am “going against everything I have been taught”?

What I am doing has been OK’d by the relevant authorities. I’m not going against anything I have been taught.

So tedious …

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Take deep breaths Bkaskoman! This descent to personal insult is unnecessary. No-one asked anyone’s opinion about pant-wearing! I’m satisfied that, as she has given her word to have the children raised as Catholics and accompany me to Mass, each Sunday doing what I can to humour her over venue location is harmless enough provided that it is a valid sacrament (which it will be).

1god1church … Thanks for your succinct answer … I now have done, I was just reporting back.

If only people hadn’t commissioned such a lot of horrendously ugly Churches from the 60s onwards!!! Absolutely appalling. Before anyone lectures me, I know theist important thing is what happens in the Church and not what it looks like … But still … as Kenneth Clark said the buildings a civilisation produce tell us a lot more accurately about a people than what they decided to write about themselves!

As long as the bishop as granted permission, that is all that matters. God Bless.

 

[FrDavid96]

A quick back story. I am a practising Catholic. I am marrying a girl who has, by happen chance, been baptised but not raised as a Catholic and is profoundly agnostic. She has accompanied me to Church of late but does not participate. She is happy that any offspring be raised as Catholics.

I am a serving soldier in the Army - which I am shortly leaving - and so do not know the parish priest of the place where we have bought a house together, and wherein we intend to live upon marriage.

I have stipulated that the marriage or service must be a Catholic one. My gf is content with this but is adament we should be married in the Protestant church in the village. She does this on the grounds of aesthetics and of the fact that this is where we will be living, as to her denominations are irrelevant. It is worth pointing out that prior to the reformation the Church was a Catholic one.

The vicar of the church in which we hope to marry has given us the thumbs up. He says that we are ok to have a Catholic mass and a Catholic wedding service. However, from what I can make out, she says that for legal reasons he would have to oversee the vows and signing of the book. **Question 1: would this compromise the validity of the sacrament?

** I approached the local parish priest, who due to a coincidence of diocesan is actually fairly removed from our village. He represented my case to the diocesan tribunal, who he then informed me have rejected the petition. This was on the grounds that we were both baptised Catholics. However, this does not reflect the reality of the situation, where I have been bought up practising and believing and my fiance has had no connection with the Church and considers her baptism a curiosity made to placate dead relatives, and not imparted on her subsequent sisters. I am trying to bring her round to the faith, but this knee jerk reaction has made her consider officially renouncing her baptism as she now considers it an impediment of what, from her perspective, is a very reasonable request. This is clearly not what I want nor what is good for her or the Catholic church. Question 2: how can I make a formal representation for myself? Is there any way i can appeal this decision? Do you consider this decision to be fair and just? Are there other examples of Catholic services being carried out in Protestant churches****

I hope you can spare the time to give me some advice as this threatens to be very harmful for both our relationship and her attitude towards Catholicims at a crucial time in our relationship, and could have big ramifications down the line, paricularly as elements of her family are quite unfavourably disposed towards the Faith and will use this to back up their viewpoint.

Broadside:

You write that you are serving in the Army…The US Army? Your post doesn’t indicate, therefore I’m asking. And yes, this is very relevant.

What exactly do you mean when you say “oversee the vows?” Do you mean that he (the non-Catholic minister) must actually be the one to stand in front of you both and ask you to recite (or respond to) the vows? Or do you mean merely that he has to be somehow present to witness the fact (and only the fact) that you made your vows in the presence of a Catholic priest?

Hope to hear from you…

 

[Angel_Bradford]

A quick back story. I am a practising Catholic. I am marrying a girl who has, by happen chance, been baptised but not raised as a Catholic and is profoundly agnostic. She has accompanied me to Church of late but does not participate. She is happy that any offspring be raised as Catholics.

I am a serving soldier in the Army - which I am shortly leaving - and so do not know the parish priest of the place where we have bought a house together, and wherein we intend to live upon marriage.

I have stipulated that the marriage or service must be a Catholic one. My gf is content with this but is adament we should be married in the Protestant church in the village. She does this on the grounds of aesthetics and of the fact that this is where we will be living, as to her denominations are irrelevant. It is worth pointing out that prior to the reformation the Church was a Catholic one.

The vicar of the church in which we hope to marry has given us the thumbs up. He says that we are ok to have a Catholic mass and a Catholic wedding service. However, from what I can make out, she says that for legal reasons he would have to oversee the vows and signing of the book. **Question 1: would this compromise the validity of the sacrament?

** I approached the local parish priest, who due to a coincidence of diocesan is actually fairly removed from our village. He represented my case to the diocesan tribunal, who he then informed me have rejected the petition. This was on the grounds that we were both baptised Catholics. However, this does not reflect the reality of the situation, where I have been bought up practising and believing and my fiance has had no connection with the Church and considers her baptism a curiosity made to placate dead relatives, and not imparted on her subsequent sisters. I am trying to bring her round to the faith, but this knee jerk reaction has made her consider officially renouncing her baptism as she now considers it an impediment of what, from her perspective, is a very reasonable request. This is clearly not what I want nor what is good for her or the Catholic church. Question 2: how can I make a formal representation for myself? Is there any way i can appeal this decision? Do you consider this decision to be fair and just? Are there other examples of Catholic services being carried out in Protestant churches****

I hope you can spare the time to give me some advice as this threatens to be very harmful for both our relationship and her attitude towards Catholicims at a crucial time in our relationship, and could have big ramifications down the line, paricularly as elements of her family are quite unfavourably disposed towards the Faith and will use this to back up their viewpoint.

Being in the military, have you given any consideration to being married by a Catholic chaplain in the base chapel?