Catholic Misery

[PolarGuy]

Although I disagree with a lot of what OP writes, I acknowledge that he is correct in this sense: there are a LOT of posters on this forum who are absolutely obsessed with not just sin, but who see mortal sin everywhere, and it’s very depressing. There appears no sense of mercy in their posts, nor understanding that God is infinitely merciful.

At this moment, someone wants to know on another thread: is it a sin to laugh? I’ve seen “is swatting a fly a mortal sin?” That’s bad enough - it’s even worse when other posters chime in with how it could be under various conditions.

That sort of thing is absolutely an awful representation of Catholicism: it makes Catholics look like sin obsessed freaks. I get the whole “people have OCD” response from 1Ke and there’s something to that, but the fact is that this isn’t a “Catholics with OCD” forum; it’s more like “Catholics in urgent need of psychological help” posting under things like “moral theology,” as if that’s the level of what Catholics think moral theology is. Any non catholic looking at this board would be singularly unimpressed with the attitudes of Catholics.

How bad is it on this board when various posters admit things are so bad they periodically need to take posting breaks? No wonder OP is frustrated.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

Misery is eternal separation from God, let me know how that turns out for you.

Seems to me that such a response - “let me know how that turns out for you” - simply confirms the OP’s impression as to the judgmentalism of Catholicism.

 

[on_the_hill]

My old nondenominational church is looking more and more attractive by the day. At least there there was just a simple trust in the grace of God and, ironically enough, those times I was doing best in regards to holiness were those times where I wasn’t fighting sin but just trusting in God’s grace. The sin tended to just fall off of my life. Since I’ve been back in the Catholic Church, I actually find that I sin more.

But would it be a good choice for you to go back, considering that you would be practicing a faith that you’re choosing because it’s easier for you to accept it?

 

[Bonnie]

At this moment, someone wants to know on another thread: is it a sin to laugh? I’ve seen “is swatting a fly a mortal sin?” That’s bad enough - it’s even worse when other posters chime in with how it could be under various conditions.

That drives me nuts. The “yes it’s mortal sin sometimes” people don’t seem to consider that the poster will then decide that that was indeed his/her situation. So no help at all.

That sort of thing is absolutely an awful representation of Catholicism: it makes Catholics look like sin obsessed freaks. I get the whole “people have OCD” response from 1Ke and there’s something to that, but the fact is that this isn’t a “Catholics with OCD” forum; it’s more like “Catholics in urgent need of psychological help” posting under things like “moral theology,” as if that’s the level of what Catholics think moral theology is. Any non catholic looking at this board would be singularly unimpressed with the attitudes of Catholics.

How bad is it on this board when various posters admit things are so bad they periodically need to take posting breaks? No wonder OP is frustrated.

It isn’t just this forum, I believe it is a problem in the Church. My children left the Church in their late teens, which upset me a lot at the time. But since then I’ve talked with them and done some pondering - I don’t blame them for leaving. Our parish was (& probably still is - I’m just not as involved as before) toxic. I’ve nearly walked out a few times myself.

 

[tawny]

You do understand that scrupulosity is mental illness in the OCD family and that those who suffer from it need help and often seek out forums like this? Therefore you will find a disproportionately high number of sufferers in places like this.

Do not confuse the way those suffering from scrupulosity see the world with what the Catholic Church teaches.

Agree.

 

[ALoveDivine]

It seems this notion of “mortal sin” is the root of all misery and scrupulosity in the Catholic Church. With this idea comes the notion that people are constantly falling into and out of salvation, sometimes on a daily basis, and justification is nothing more than dying at a moment in time when you happen to be “in” rather than “out”.

Scripture does talk about sin unto death, but the context makes it pretty evident that this is a reference to apostasy, and it parallels Jesus teaching about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Further when Paul talks about certain people not inheriting the Kingdom of God, he says that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. A practicing fornicator will not go to heaven. It doesn’t follow that a person who slips up and does it one time is at that moment now under God’s wrath. Just like when Jesus says a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, so Paul seems to be reaffirming this by simply saying that those who bear bad fruit (unrepentant practicing sinners) are not “good trees”.

Yet 1 John also says, in reference to Christians, that if we say we are without sin we deceive ourselves. Christians are sinners but not unrepentant sinners. Christians are just repentant sinners saved by grace, sinners who desire holiness and love God, but sinners nonetheless. And no matter how bad a Christian slips up, only forsaking Christ entirely will lead to his damnation. The blood of Christ covers us, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom. 8).

That’s another reason I’m having a hard time being Catholic, I like to do my own thinking.

 

[PolarGuy]

OP, it’s somewhat more complex than you are presenting.

Although I agree with you in many respects about mortal sin, the proximity of, say, people with OCD is unrelated to whether the Catholic Church offers more truth than any other faith. You really do yourself no favors whatsoever - whether with others, or spiritually - when you say things like “I like my sins;” I’m sure some church will take you, but whether your attitude is conducive to truth is another issue. Phrased differently, the nondenom church isn’t attractive because it offers truth; it’s attractive because they won’t actually tell you to stop doing something you should stop,i.e., all you want is an easy path.

Further, the whole “I think for myself!” attitude is silly. Why? Because no faith, bar none, offers the intellectual tradition of Catholicism and its tenets can stand literally any degree of philosophical challenge. Do you really think that any miscellaneous Protestant minister of some nondenon church can hold an intellectual candle to, say, thomas aquinas; Albertus Magnus; or legions of catholic thinkers who basically were the light of Europe during the dark ages? Seriously, most people lack the intellectual wherewithall to even read aquinas, let alone understand him. If you’re such a great independent thinker, tell us why in exact detail why people like Aquinas - whose doctrines are those of the church - are wrong about X, and then maybe we can have a conversation. At present thought, I’d say “I like to think for myself!” Is a dodge for “I don’t like what the church says so I’ll look for a reason to claim they’re wrong.” Your position is not intellectually strong.

 

[ALoveDivine]

You really do yourself no favors whatsoever - whether with others, or spiritually - when you say things like “I like my sins;”

I’m just being honest. I’m not gonna lie and say I hate all my sins. However, I WANT to hate my sins, because I do genuinely love God. I was an atheist for so many years, and he came into my life in a powerful way six years ago and I have never been the same since. He’s done so much in my life I am convinced he loves me and wants me as his own. Yet if I’m to be honest I must admit that I greatly enjoy certain sins and have a very hard time shedding them.

the nondenom church isn’t attractive because it offers truth; it’s attractive because they won’t actually tell you to stop doing something you should stop

This isn’t true in my experience, most conservative protestant churches I’ve ever been to preach very strongly against sin and very strongly in favor of holiness. The difference is they advocate despairing of your own efforts, admitting you can’t do it, and instead urge you to give it all up to God in humble surrender. This is the message I find in protestant churches that I do not find in the Catholic Church, and it is the message that has done more for my walk with the Lord than probably anything else. You can’t merit salvation or in any way earn it by your own efforts, it is a free gift of God’s mercy. That is the message that, paradoxically, leads to holiness, at least in those who have really been converted.

Because no faith, bar none, offers the intellectual tradition of Catholicism and its tenets can stand literally any degree of philosophical challenge

I do admire much of the intellectual tradition of Catholicism, I will grant you that. But this isn’t unique to Catholicism. Lutheranism and the Reformed traditional also have a very rich intellectual tradition. Reformed theology especially is very rigorous and logical, and thoroughly biblical. I actually admire all three traditions for these reasons. Though I disagree that Catholic teachings cant stand any philosophical challenge. I think Humanea Vitae, for example, is riddled with logical fallacies.

When I speak of nondenominational churches I’m not talking about your typical CBN Joel Osteen type psuedo-churches. I’m talking about conservative biblical nondenominational congregations grounded in the theological traditions of the reformation.

 

[Bonnie]

I’m done, goodbye Catholic Church.

I don’t think you are done. I think you want someone to talk you out of leaving the Catholic Church. If you were really “done,” you’d be gone without all this back & forth.

 

[1ke]

I WANT to hate my sins, because I do genuinely love God.

Training our will is hard, that is why we need the virtues, the spiritual habits of choosing the good. From whence do the virtues proceed? The Holy Spirit! And with what does the Holy Spirit fortify us? Grace that sanctifies us. And from whence do we receive this grace? The sacraments. And where are those available to you? The Catholic Church.

So the sacraments are central to our pursuit of holiness.

You can’t merit salvation or in any way earn it by your own efforts, it is a free gift of God’s mercy. That is the message that, paradoxically, leads to holiness, at least in those who have really been converted.

Of course it is a free gift from God that we cannot earn. The Catholic Church teaches that.

But, we are called to participate in our sanctification through conversion of heart and living in holiness. BE holy, that is what the Lord says. Not, “you are vile and incapable of being holy”.

 

[fhansen]

Having read numerous threads on here now, there’s really only one conclusion I can come to. Your by-the-books, hyper-orthodox Catholic lifestyle has got to be exceedingly miserable. How do you guys ever live life, not wanting to simply die immediately, when you seriously believe that touching yourself or oversleeping and missing church will damn your soul to eternal torture?

How do you live life constantly feeling like you’re walking a tightrope in fearful obedience to a God who will make those ISIS criminals who burned that Jordanian pilot alive look like boy scouts? How does life bring you any joy?

If I genuinely believed everything you guys talk about here, I’d want to do only three things. Confess, commune, and immediately die. Life itself wouldn’t be worth the risk. I’d despair continually and come to hate God and see him as a sadistic torturous monster. I was baptized Catholic and raised in the faith, I’ve tried to come back to it, and thanks to this forum all I can see is absolute utter misery. All I see is rampant psychologically devastating scrupulosity and sheer misery.

I don’t care about your historical arguments or “upon this rock” diatribes anymore. If the God of Catholicism is true, I don’t want anything to do with him. He’s a monster. What kind of God tortures his creatures forever because they commit a single sin? You make the cross of Christ of no effect.

I’m a sinner to the very core of my being, there is no good in me, and if I had to merit eternal life, even with divine help, I’d fail. If its up to me I’m doomed, period. I love my sin too much, and I can’t shake it. All I can do is trust that Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection is sufficient to save my soul; that the grace of God alone, apart from my actions, is what redeems me. If i’m wrong, and you guys are right, I guess I get tortured forever. And if that’s the case, I’d probably rather endure that then worship such a monstrous God anyway.

How you all live like this I have no clue. Life must really suck for you, fear must pervade your entire psyche to the point of crippling you. What a terrible, terrible religion. Sorry for my rant, just had to get that off my chest. I’m done, goodbye Catholic Church.

Sin is real-and not at all God’s intention. Sin is to be unnaturally out of sync with the Universe, out of alignment with God’s will. If we make Christianity nothing more than an excuse to remain in our sin then what has changed, what has Christ accomplished?

If, instead, Christianity is for the purpose of* healing* us, of not only forgiving but also of perfecting us, restoring justice to God’s universe, then God is truly good; mercy, justice, and love coincide as He patiently does a work in us, unto salvation. We’re only asked to cooperate with that work, striving, with the help of grace-with the help of God, apart from whom we can do nothing-towards the goal of perfection: whoever *He *means for us to be IOW.

 

[littlestsouls2]

I once mentioned the sermons of St. John Vianney to a traditional priest and he said: “No! Don’t read that. You need permission to read books like that.”

What he was getting at, I think, is this: certain spiritual writers put a greater emphasis on sin and damnation; and if we are not well-instructed in our faith, it can possibly give us the wrong idea of God completely.

The reality is that many Catholics (including myself) sometimes misrepresent Church teaching, making it seem overly severe or burdensome, when the reality is quite the opposite. Nowhere will we find greater joy and mercy than in the bosom of Holy Mother Church. I am particularly attracted to Saints who were “little souls” because they lived their faith as children of God. With great simplicity and confidence they abandoned themselves to Divine Providence, and their greatest fear was not damnation - a thought that was far from their minds - but the fear of failing in confidence.

Befriend these “little souls” and they will help you to find confidence and joy. Some of these souls include St. Therese, Sr. Jeanne Benigne Gojos, Sr. Josefa Menendez, Sr. Consolata Bertone and Sr. Benigna Consolata.

“My dove, that place [Hell] is for those who will neither love nor obey.”

• Jesus to Sr. Jeanne

The reality is that mortal sin deserves Hell, but God so often raises sinners (including myself) from mortal sin and bathes them in His Precious Blood in the Sacrament of Confession. He instituted this for our benefit; we won’t be happier or holier without it, nor will distancing ourself from the Blessed Sacrament bring us any spiritual benefit whatsoever.

 

[PrayPsalm51]

Having read numerous threads on here now, there’s really only one conclusion I can come to. Your by-the-books, hyper-orthodox Catholic lifestyle has got to be exceedingly miserable. How do you guys ever live life, not wanting to simply die immediately, when you seriously believe that touching yourself or oversleeping and missing church will damn your soul to eternal torture?

How do you live life constantly feeling like you’re walking a tightrope in fearful obedience to a God who will make those ISIS criminals who burned that Jordanian pilot alive look like boy scouts? How does life bring you any joy?

If I genuinely believed everything you guys talk about here, I’d want to do only three things. Confess, commune, and immediately die. Life itself wouldn’t be worth the risk. I’d despair continually and come to hate God and see him as a sadistic torturous monster. I was baptized Catholic and raised in the faith, I’ve tried to come back to it, and thanks to this forum all I can see is absolute utter misery. All I see is rampant psychologically devastating scrupulosity and sheer misery.

I don’t care about your historical arguments or “upon this rock” diatribes anymore. If the God of Catholicism is true, I don’t want anything to do with him. He’s a monster. What kind of God tortures his creatures forever because they commit a single sin? You make the cross of Christ of no effect.

I’m a sinner to the very core of my being, there is no good in me, and if I had to merit eternal life, even with divine help, I’d fail. If its up to me I’m doomed, period. I love my sin too much, and I can’t shake it. All I can do is trust that Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection is sufficient to save my soul; that the grace of God alone, apart from my actions, is what redeems me. If i’m wrong, and you guys are right, I guess I get tortured forever. And if that’s the case, I’d probably rather endure that then worship such a monstrous God anyway.

How you all live like this I have no clue. Life must really suck for you, fear must pervade your entire psyche to the point of crippling you. What a terrible, terrible religion. Sorry for my rant, just had to get that off my chest. I’m done, goodbye Catholic Church.

I’

I’ve never been happier or more content since I starated practicing and learning my faith more fully. I’m very blessed. It’s not a burden at all. I pray you’ll come back home.

 

[Sarcelle]

I think that the message “you are wicked and vile, there is no good in you at all…etc” that is not a Catholic teaching. One of the best advice I have ever received from a Catholic priest I received during confession, and his message was the opposite of this

He told me…“You’re a daughter of God…
A cherished member of his family. Go before the blessed sacrament and pray for the grace to be able to treat your body as a cherished tabernacle for our Lord”

Alovedivine…you are a child of God…a priceless member of his family…pray for the grace to treat your body as a tabernacle for our lord

This “wicked and vile” thing reminds me more of Calvinism’s view of total depravity rather Catholicism.

Just saying.